Go Back   AFA Forums > Atheism > Ask an Atheist

Ask an Atheist Want to know Atheists' viewpoints on things? Want to better understand the Atheist worldview?
Here's the place.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 21st June 2009, 08:56 AM
Seamus Seamus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,425
Default Re: Goaty and Convenient - Secular Charity

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black View Post
The charities being mentioned are all great (must put links to these in the Library), but sometimes nothing says it like a goat.
Absolutely. Especially if you're a Satanist or an atheist and can't get hold of a baby.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 19th July 2009, 04:00 PM
Worldslaziestbusker's Avatar
Worldslaziestbusker Worldslaziestbusker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: By the sea (I do like it)
Posts: 3,654
Default Charity

During a discussion at work last week, someone mentioned a report that showed the bulk of charity work carried out in Australia could be attributed to churches. Has anyone seen this report?
Charitable works are the main justification for religious organisations getting tax breaks, so if this report exists and the claimed skew in favour of the faith full is true they might have a right to that status and to claim that religion makes people nicer.
I'm dubious, however, as I am sure the religious people I know who are involved in charity would continue to volunteer their time and energy to improve their community if they didn't have their faith. There might be some who look at the stick (hell) or the carrot (heaven) and perform good deeds to avoid one and win the other but that's not charity in my book. Work performed through fear is slavery and work performed for reward is employment.
I am also unsure how charitable some charities are. A lot of church community services require that those receiving help must be willing to at least perform lip service to the faith of the service provider. No communal prayer, no soup for you! Again, the reward (potential converts, alleged brownie points with deity) undermines the charitable deed.
Please get in touch if you can guide me to the report my colleague alluded to but couldn't produce.

It did get me thinking about my voluntary contributions to my community, though. I do a few things but a return to the workforce after many years of student life hasn't seen me return to former levels of charitable effort. I could excuse myself that new parenthood offers me the opportunity to shape a young life into a pillar of the next generation and that that is sufficient contribution to society but I think I'll start visiting the local old folks home to lend an ear to some lonely people and see where things go from there.



Can you tell I've got a thesis to write?
WLB
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 19th July 2009, 04:15 PM
SchizoDeluxe's Avatar
SchizoDeluxe SchizoDeluxe is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Perth
Posts: 1,365
Default Re: Charity

I think anyone who only does good just for the reward is not much better than someone who doesn't participate in any charitable event. That's really why a lot of religious folk do charity work for their church, they think they are doing god a favor and in return will recieve some glorious gift in the form of some afterlife treat or whatever. I don't know if most charities are religious based or not but it certaintly wouldn't surprise me.
__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death - George Carlin (R.I.P.)
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 19th July 2009, 05:07 PM
kencooke's Avatar
kencooke kencooke is offline
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 322
Default Re: Atheist Charities

Reviving thread to help with recent query by Worldslaziestbusker.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 19th July 2009, 05:13 PM
Worldslaziestbusker's Avatar
Worldslaziestbusker Worldslaziestbusker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: By the sea (I do like it)
Posts: 3,654
Default Re: Atheist Charities

Thanks, Ken
I had seen this thread and plan to make some effort to support these organisations but if the bulk of charitable work done in Australia falls on the shoulders of church based organisations then their right to tax free status has some validity under current law (though the law itself dates back to the 1600s).
I'd rather see them pay tax and the government use the proceeds to carry out the work currently provided by religious organisations in a coordinated and non-discriminatory fashion.
Cheerio
WLB
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 19th July 2009, 05:23 PM
kencooke's Avatar
kencooke kencooke is offline
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 322
Default Re: Charity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Worldslaziestbusker View Post
Charitable works are the main justification for religious organisations getting tax breaks,
Not quite true. Australian law accepts "the advancement of religion" as a charitable cause in its own right. It has nothing to do with any other charitable works that they do but rather the notion that religion makes for a moral and healthy society. Religions as varied as paganism, wicca, scientology, ancestor worship, aboriginal religions, islam, christian are all treated in the same way under the taxation system. However humanist organisations are not entitled to tax advantages.

Any organisation, religious or not can get tax breaks for any charitable works that they provide as long as they register for charitable status.

There are many non religious charities about and I have revived a previous thread to do with this.
Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2009, 05:44 PM
youngmoigle
This message has been deleted by youngmoigle.
  #27  
Old 19th July 2009, 05:48 PM
youngmoigle youngmoigle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 1,319
Default Re: Charity

I checked it out a few months ago and to the best of my knowledge, all of these are secular charities with no religious affiliations.

Red Cross
Oxfam
UNICEF
Fred Hollows Foundation
Water Aid
Save The Children
Doctors Without Borders
The Gates Foundation
SHARE (Secular Humanist Aid & Relief Effort)

and there are some others mentioned in this thread:
http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/...read.php?t=975


-------------------------------------------


Quote:
During a discussion at work last week, someone mentioned a report that showed the bulk of charity work carried out in Australia could be attributed to churches. Has anyone seen this report?
Charitable works are the main justification for religious organisations getting tax breaks, so if this report exists and the claimed skew in favour of the faith full is true they might have a right to that status and to claim that religion makes people nicer.
Churches are usually quite separate from their charities. Tithe money and other donations collected by the church usually stay with the church -that cash is most definitely not used to "perform good works".

Much of the cash doled out by charities comes direct from the Government. More money comes from the sale of donated goods and cash donations made directly to the charity (not the church).

The St Vincent De Paul Society has a new website that I have yet to navigate. I do, however, have a copy of the mission statement from the old site and it clearly states:

"The Society does not receive any direct funding from the Catholic Church"

So the Church collects whatever it can and keeps it all - and even though the Church pays no tax, not one cent of the money saved is given over to charity.

Nothing shonky about the actual charity organisation of course - it is doing exactly what it set out to do. I'm just pointing out that the Churches are basking in reflected glory...
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 19th July 2009, 06:38 PM
Seamus Seamus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,425
Default Re: Charity

With limited funds,I contribute by pledged giving to two charities:

Medicines sans Frontieres

The Fred Hollows Foundation.

I will sometimes give a few dollars to a secular charity who knocks at my door,but never to any religious organisation.

I DO eat Weetbix (well Coles brand actually,I can't tell the difference) but have never set foot inside Gloria Jeans

Personally I couldn't care less 'why' a person gives to charity,so long as they give. I don't give to churches because I don't trust the bastards to spend the money where they say (or imply) they will.

Were I a member of a foreign government,I would automatically deport any foreign missionaries,except Mormons and Scientologits,whom I would shoot.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 19th July 2009, 07:21 PM
tandytripper's Avatar
tandytripper tandytripper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Gold Coast QLD
Posts: 236
Default Re: Charity

Worldslaziestbusker,
Hi and welcome to the forum.
First of all, I reckon your work associate is full of it as there are far more secular charitable organisations, not only in Australia but world wide over religious/theistic ones. The difference is however, it is the religion-based ones which put their little hands up telling people just what "great work" they are allegedly doing, while the secular ones just go about DOING the work, rather than telling everyone they are how great they are by doing it.
Quote:
Charitable works are the main justification for religious organisations getting tax breaks, so if this report exists and the claimed skew in favour of the faith full is true they might have a right to that status and to claim that religion makes people nicer.
The only 'chart' I found to represent this was one done and released in the US last year and it related to americans and not aussies AND was relative to a "public opinion" report only. ( I am assuming this means a phone poll of "X" demographic), done by a Dr Kluth, who surprise surprise, just happens to be a Pastor. Gee what a shocker.. *RME*
http://www.prlog.org/10115127-philan...ar-people.html
 
Quote:
I'm dubious, however, as I am sure the religious people I know who are involved in charity would continue to volunteer their time and energy to improve their community if they didn't have their faith. There might be some who look at the stick (hell) or the carrot (heaven) and perform good deeds to avoid one and win the other but that's not charity in my book. Work performed through fear is slavery and work performed for reward is employment.
It is interesting you say that because when I was a xian, I DID do work with the "needy" but the reality was, my motives were actually more self-serving than I would are to admit at the time. In hindsight however, I see it for what it was. Although I was in some way helping those in need, my reasons for doing it were hardly altruistic. I gained for myself and I gained for the church. Those in need are easily manipulated and therefore easy converts. Religious charity is literally a scratch your back and then you scratch mine system, or if not "mine" then scratch "gods". There is a constant reminder as to just "who" made this assistance possible and the alleged provider should constantly be thanked. IS that being charitable? Constantly reminding people where the things they need came from? To me it isn't.
These days I see charity, whether work or just $20.oo to "X" research foundation as a no strings attached thing. Of course we all feel good when we have given something, whether time or money, but I doubt those on this forum constantly revisit the places or call the orgs we have donated to to remind them of our 'good will".
Quote:
It did get me thinking about my voluntary contributions to my community, though. I do a few things but a return to the workforce after many years of student life hasn't seen me return to former levels of charitable effort. I could excuse myself that new parenthood offers me the opportunity to shape a young life into a pillar of the next generation and that that is sufficient contribution to society but I think I'll start visiting the local old folks home to lend an ear to some lonely people and see where things go from there.
Well, the whole charity begins at home thing rings true here, WLB and congrats on the new life you and your spouse brought into the world. Whether you do end up going to the old folks home, just so don't do it out of assumed external obligation. I am sure your hands are quite full with a new bub and no one could pass any judgement on that being your most important concern and if they did, just tell it to jam it up their arse.




 
 
 
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 19th July 2009, 09:37 PM
loubert's Avatar
loubert loubert is offline
Thunder and lightning, very very frighting
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Townsville
Posts: 3,368
Default Re: Atheist Charities

good to know that i wasn't the only one who worries about who i give my hard earned to.....

personally i have stuck to doctors without borders....
i am also a huge advocate of education so i typed in teachers without borders... and lo and behold..

http://www.teacherswithoutborders.org/
i am going to do a bit of research to see if they are secular or not.. will report back... probably tomorrow sometime

it appears they are in the clear, i couldn't find any link between them and some fundie or wacky belief, further research may be required though.

Last edited by loubert; 20th July 2009 at 10:06 AM. Reason: further research
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time now is 01:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.