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  #11  
Old 28th August 2010, 08:31 PM
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Senexis Senexis is offline
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Default Re: What could top heaven?

A life of freedom.
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  #12  
Old 28th August 2010, 11:44 PM
Dixie Chick Dixie Chick is offline
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Default Re: What could top heaven?

I'm talking about religion's grip on people. The grip is iron fast with most people. And that's just Part One. There are more grips than that.

Indoctrination
"what will people think"
Invisible Super-Friend
Community
& the biggie...fear of hell

I was just thinking about the heaven part.
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  #13  
Old 28th August 2010, 11:52 PM
Dixie Chick Dixie Chick is offline
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Default Re: What could top heaven?

Scenario I: Grandma dies. We are sad, but we'll see her in heaven again. Then mom, dad. My husband! Oh how I love him. I can't bear life without him. But I'll see him in heaven. That's comforting knowing he's in a better place and I get to see him forever again one day in paradise. I'm hanging on to that because I miss him so so so. Without him I would just crumble. My belief gives me the strength & peace of mind to enjoy my remaining days.

Scenario II: Grandma, mom, dad die. Never to be seen or loved again. Husband's gonna die one day and I'll be alone. All alone in the cold hard world without his being there. Then I'll die. Slowly aging thru the years, losing various functions. Alone. or tossed in a nursing home to disintigrate by inches. Then. The end.

Which is better to believe in? Which brings our aging & elderly people comfort and happiness to believe? What if all the grandmas knew of the truth...how could they cope ...never seeing grandpa ever ever again. Poof! The most important person in their lives is just plain gone with no hope of ever seeing him again.

Last edited by Dixie Chick; 28th August 2010 at 11:56 PM. Reason: addition
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  #14  
Old 28th August 2010, 11:57 PM
Enginseer Enginseer is offline
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Default Re: What could top heaven?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki View Post
It's real?
hahaha, argument defeated in the first reply, I LOVE IT!
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  #15  
Old 29th August 2010, 12:01 AM
Dixie Chick Dixie Chick is offline
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Default Re: What could top heaven?

Most people aren't equipped to be real. I myself am not totally equipped. Reality is harsh. Loved ones die. No way to do anything about it. We die. The end. Scary.
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  #16  
Old 29th August 2010, 02:17 AM
Dixie Chick Dixie Chick is offline
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Default Re: What could top heaven?

Yeah, I know. Here & now. The precious present. I get it...but...many need more. (& death freaks me out anyway). Here's what got me to thinking this...little snippets of people in my life:

1. My mom. 90. Old, bad knees. Weak. Takes her hours to do things that would take us 10 minutes. Was crazy about my dad. He died in 1997. She waits to be with him again in heaven. What benefit is it to her to be "real"? And think she'll never see him again....and slowly get weaker & weaker until she dies. One day we'll all be old & feeble too.

2. My brother. Age 50. Downs Syndrome. Had him to ER this past week. He says things he's thinking out of the blue. Like the doctor comes in all business - and John sticks out his hand. "Hi, I'm John". Doctor slows down & introduces himself. I observed little things like this the whole evening...he told the doctor he was born at the old hospital but they tore it down. He told him & a nurse out of the blue "my dad's in heaven". I thought how sweet he is. What benefit would it be to him to be "real" (even if he could be real). He goes to church every Sunday and it is special to him. Its special to others in a similar way.

3. Daughter. 19. Emotional. Sensitive. (Redhead). I think she needs this belief in something more in order to cope with the hard things we all cope with.
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  #17  
Old 29th August 2010, 02:30 AM
Dixie Chick Dixie Chick is offline
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Default Re: What could top heaven?

Here's another thing I'm thinking about which has nothing to do with religion but its more like culture - and warlike culture...my daughter's boyfriend's dad was in Iraq years back. Was in some vehicle that got bombed...broke his back...spends a lot of time now at the VA (Veterans Hospital) and on morphine etc...to me - it ruined his life - being a soldier but - now he carries tons of guns with him all the time - he did sniper stuff over there (I don't know anything about stuff like this) ...now there is a private company looking for (according to him, but he's a little cuckoo) an employee - security - according to him part of job description is "search and destroy"...he said over there - you got shot at - you learn to shoot back. To me that was his mentality of survival - he's got that ingrained now.. His wife has recently divorced him, he still loves her - he's really gentle, shy, kind, loving, funny - all of those things - but he has this soldier part to his personality. He's talking about going back over - trying to get a job with this private company. I think: He's trying to forget his wife and taking his huge backlogged anger out on those people over there - "killing brown people". I don't know. I think we live in a messed up world and it makes me sad....this is off topic but it's on my mind....our culture and how it affects all of us. I guess religion and war is part of that culture. Its crazy.
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  #18  
Old 29th August 2010, 02:40 AM
Dixie Chick Dixie Chick is offline
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Default Re: What could top heaven?

But skip over that above thing if you want and go back to the "benefits of belief in heaven idea" which is what I meant to be talking about....if I don't get some of this stuff out of my system it bothers me tons...and my mind moves from one thing to another and gets it all in my system....just venting...
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  #19  
Old 29th August 2010, 02:47 AM
Dixie Chick Dixie Chick is offline
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Default Re: What could top heaven?

And I guess that what I'm saying also - is that there are reasons why people cling to things and do things they do - irrational things - like want to be a sniper and want to believe in heaven. How do you fight stuff like that - ingrained culture - I guess you don't - you just wear it away little by little - thru generations... but back to the "heaven" thing - maybe if that idea didn't exist - would it be harmful to some?
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  #20  
Old 29th August 2010, 08:59 AM
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Senexis Senexis is offline
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Default Re: What could top heaven?

DC, I totally get that. Our relationship with religion is a complex and difficult one. We all know many people like you're describing: good and kind people for whom the hope their beliefs give them is staggering. People who would struggle without it.

For those people it's somewhere between cruel and too late to disabuse them of their comforting fantasy, which is why I stopped discussing religion with my parents.

However, for every one of those, I'm sure there's a child abused by a priest, or a gay or bi person damned to hell and denied rights into the bargain, Africans dying of AIDS because of the lies spread about condoms, albino kids killed for or because of witchcraft, women stoned to death of otherwise killed "for honour", schoolkids beheaded on their way to class by rival religions, etc etc.

The crushing tragedy of religion is that we don't have to resort to history to see its brutal, ignorant cruelty.

So in my instance, I'll respect my parents and not challenge their beliefs, while keeping those beliefs well away from my kids - and reinforcing the fantasy nature of them.

"What's a church, dad?"
"It's a place for those grown-ups who still believe fairytales are real"
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Saleh'Uddin, on wargamerau.com: In the face of double complete rainbows, levitation ain't no thing. Quite simply it is not good manners to do such things
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
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