Zoroastrianism - Is Christianity plagiarism?

[robertkd]

Agreed the similarities are at best superficial and I didn't mean for it to mean xtain/mus-lamb were based directly on Egyptian (or Middle Eastern @&etc) mythology, but the meme themes to me at least are enough to make me think that bits and pieces where adopted (modified and/or dropped) over time as civilisations rose and fell.

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by robertkd

Agreed the similarities are at best superficial and I didn't mean for it to mean xtain/mus-lamb were based directly on Egyptian (or Middle Eastern @&etc) mythology, but the meme themes to me at least are enough to make me think that bits and pieces where adopted (modified and/or dropped) over time as civilisations rose and fell.

Absolutely.This becomes really striking when you look at the different emphases of Catholicism around the world; Eg; Irish, French,Italian and English.

Catholicism in Mexico,Central South and America is very different indeed. Many of the old gods have been given new names and turned into the Madonna or saints.

The practice is continuous.Mexico currently has a massively popular Saint ;'Santa Meurte',adopted as patron saint of the drug cartels. Really


From wiki:

Santa Muerte is a sacred figure venerated in Mexico, probably a syncretism between Mesoamerican and Catholic beliefs. The name literally translates to "Saint Death."[1] Mexican culture since the pre-Columbian era has maintained a certain reverence towards death,[2] which can be seen in the widespread Mexican celebration of the syncretic Day of the Dead.[3] Catholic elements of that celebration include the use of skeletons to remind people of their mortality.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Muerte

[Glorius]

Christianity is Zoroastrianism with a new name.

At the Jesus birth myth, the 3 wise men are called in the greek Bible - Magi and Magi are Zoroastrian priests.

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by Glorius

Christianity is Zoroastrianism with a new name.

At the Jesus birth myth, the 3 wise men are called in the greek Bible - Magi and Magi are Zoroastrian priests.

THAT is one of the sillier claims I've read recently.

The ancient Greek word for magician ( astrologer, alchemists etc) is 'goes'. It did not come into common use in Greek until the C4th CE. Then it included the Hellenic notions of a Zoroastrian priest. The magi mentioned in Matthew may or may not have been Zoroastrians.--That's if you ignore the likelihood that the New Testament is myth.


If you'd like,I'll explain why Christianity is not simply Zoroastrianism with a new name,but a mongrel religion composed of many borrowed and invented elements. Just one example;fire worship was and still is a basic part of Zoroastrianism.That has never been the case in Christianity.

[RealityRules]

Originally Posted by Seamus

Christianity .. began as a strict Jewish sect (Judaism also has some major borrowed elements*) Then (the probably two or more) people known as Saul introduced new bits such as an eternal hell. The early Church pinched bits of Roman beliefs,especially from the Syrian god, Sol Deus Invictus.

Zoroastrianism dates from anywhere between 1750-1400 BCE. It is credited with influencing both Judaic thinking as well as the Platonists. Elements could reasonably be expected to be found in Christianity.

Saul and his mates invented the concept of the second coming to compensate for not being able to produce the so-called Messiah they promoted, and the resurrection stories are alleged to have been promoted for the same reason (messiahs weren't meant to die as they were mean't to be immortal).

Likewise the need for circumcision to belong, as was the case with Judaism, was done away with to make joining more appealing.

[robertkd]

Well I suppose if they could invent gods why not get whimsical with foreskin

http://www.historyofcircumcision.net...ask=view&id=31

I wont read anything into the fascination priests and other religious elders etc might have had with ones members pupace but there is a lot of history surrounding the practice.

I was also under the impression that the practice may also have been institutionalised to reduce infection amongst nomadic tribes so whether that was a practical practice that become a "right of passage" or some other ritual, I'm not sure,... and how the feck does it reduce masturbation,.. anyone got more information?

[Seamus]

Trivia re circumcision:

One practical explanation is that circumcision was common in desert cultures with poor static hygiene.

The Australian aboriginal custom of subcision seems to be in class of its own. (BIG painful)

[Soup Dragon]

Originally Posted by robertkd

... and how the feck does it reduce masturbation,.. anyone got more information?

Time for a 'masturbation poll' circs v er, um the intact

[RealityRules]

Originally Posted by robertkd

... and how the feck does it reduce masturbation,.. anyone got more information?

Doubt whether it does: just another myth. From the link you gave

43 St Paul convinces a meeting in Jerusalem that circumcision is not required for Christian converts.

45 Philo (c.15 BCE to c.50 CE), a Jewish philosopher in Alexandria, defends circumcision on the ground that it is a valuable curb on sexual indulgence:

"The legislators thought good to dock the organ which ministers to such intercourse,
thus making circumcision the symbol of excision of excessive and superfluous pleasure."

1860s Circumcision as means of curing or preventing masturbation in boys becomes widespread medical dogma in Britain. For the next 100 years (and in the USA 150 years) doctors insist it is a scientifically proven medical fact that the foreskin is harmful to the physical and moral health males and must be surgically removed before they even become conscious that it was ever there.

[robertkd]

@Black

Indeed the site has references 6000? and 10000? years BC but the correlation between circumcision (both male and female) as to some seemly half baked inference on masturbation and the oddity of religions having such a hang up on masturbation and at the same time be so keen for genital mutilation, the mind boggles at how religions/beliefs rationalise themselves.