The Rough and Tumble of Debate

[youngmoigle]

A little more than a year ago, just after Steve Wakeford had left the forum, I posted this message:

One of the things that attracted me to this board was no permanent bans and no editing of posts. That's got to produce lively debates I thought - and I was right.

I'm choosing my words carefully because I don't want to come across as some sort of wowser and I don't want to seem like I'm defending Steve because I'm not. The thing is though, he is walking away the winner today. He came here to gather information against atheists and now he's got heaps of it. When he shows this thread to his friends, their poor opinion of atheism is sure to be reinforced. Things got emotional, harsh words were spoken and I'll bet Steve has all of them saved onto his hard-drive and ready for future reference.

I reckon we should concentrate on ideas, rather than personalities.

LINK:
http://atheistfoundation.org.au/foru...&postcount=102

I've been following the recent debates with the deists and have to say that my feelings haven't changed.

[Xeno]

Ripper idea, youngmoigle. I have a suggestion; write a little note to one of those deism fellows and ask them to concentrate on ideas, there's a good chap. I'm sure it will get things back on track right away.

[Mister Pervert]

Originally Posted by youngmoigle

A little more than a year ago, just after Steve Wakeford had left the forum, I posted this message:

LINK:
http://atheistfoundation.org.au/foru...&postcount=102

I've been following the recent debates with the deists and have to say that my feelings haven't changed.

And I've been "reborn!"

You and I have had our differences in the past (mostly me being an idiot and you being the model of reason and logic), but here we are. I changed; you haven't. Viva l'difference!

(Said in the most jokular and jovial tone)

[davo]

I gave up long ago trying to really get anything out of them youngmoigle when I asked repetitively the same question, breaking it down to a one liner, with the poster calling me a theist etc and getting all shitty at me, then left and they started posting stuff on their forums about 'all atheists'.

[Logic please]

@youngmoigle: if you don't have the time or inclination to wade through the entire Deist thread (probably a very sensible response! ), I posted something pertaining to this here.

Originally Posted by Logic please

If IDF wants a discussion, how about honestly addressing the damn questions as a strategy?

I'm far from the only one to challenge IDF on this....

Still waiting.....

[Worldslaziestbusker]

Hello Youngmoigle
What has politeness got to do with the merit of an idea? They arrived, made a series of posts stating very little, and then go off an indeterminately long tangent about copyright, avoiding clarifying any point they've been called on or answering direct questions. They've been given the respect their behaviour warrants. If they can't make their point stick in reasoned debate, crowing about rudeness in their own forum doesn't get them much further. I don't care enough about what American new agers think of me or my ideas to get involved either way.

Also, you're talking to individual atheists, not an atheist religion. No central creed, no all powerful leader. Act as an individual and all you can take the blame for are your individual efforts. The cost is that you can only take the credit for your own efforts, too, which sucks, 'cos I'd like to claim credit for Richard Feynman's body of work but I can't 'cos all I've got in common with the man is that we are both atheists. If they're getting mileage out of rudeness on their forums, perhaps you could get amonst them on their home turf and set the record straight about your own manners, but you will only be representing Youngmoigle.
I've advocated one on one discussions with theists in the past, proposing some form of cab rank distribution system to match atheists with theists, but I realise that's unworkable in light of how theists tend to think and post (and as theists are usually part of a collective with a central doctrine and a leader, this is a valid generalisation).
If they think atheists can be characterised as a collective, they've arrived with a mindset that politeness isn't likely to make much headway against anyway.
WLB

[Seamus]

@Youngmoigle:

Who on earth are you talking about and what makes you think I care what he thinks about anything?

If he's stupid enough to judge everyone who happens to be an atheist by some internet forum,that's his problem. If you care that's your problem,not mine.

I do not usually deliberately set out to insult anyone first. Nor do I refrain from expressing an opinion because it may give offence.My respect is earned. Few apologists manage that task,on forums and in real life.

As far as I know,my only obligation here is to keep the forum rules.

Everyone has the right to be offended,no one has the right not to be offended.

[Fearless]

Originally Posted by youngmoigle

I've been following the recent debates with the deists and have to say that my feelings haven't changed.

I hear what you are saying but I guess in my opinion when you welcome people in and they start making bogus claims without making any efforts to back them up but instead insist you read a wall of nonsense text, then get all shitty if you try to challenge them on any of it, then you know they are not really here to form any meaningful bond or communicate effectively, just to assert their position/agenda and fight to the death.

Next thing you know more arrive to do pretty much the same thing... then the hurt fawn play comes into action... then the avoidance of saying anything further because, well basically they have nothing, so instead they focus on how terrible we are and stupid issues like swearing etc... a cheap smokescreen to ensure they don't have to say anything of substance until they are satisfied.

Not to mention in this case that they were openly slagging us off from their own forum. At least we are not dishonest hypocrites. They have finally taken their slagging to private forum boards we cant read but they were ignorant enough to think we wouldn't be reading... or is it that they just didn't care.

Even Ervin was happily stirring from afar and couldn't even address his own comments when spoken to directly about them here.

You see and experience it so much it starts to become very repetitive.

Read everything over again and see what you think... even try google... it is not the first time some of this has happened and turned sour. Try typing in the following words:

Alumno deVerum Deism

And checking the first link... they don't learn.

So you feel the Deists are winners? I didn't realise it was a competition!

[davo]

They are simply trying to assert their belief = logic and reason at the same level as the atheist position. When questioned on this, they get all shitty.

Watch some of their vids, they are simply trying to ride off the growing popularity of atheism.

[atheist_angel]

I've also noticed at least one of them moves the goal posts all over the place, everytime it suits his agenda to do so. A couple of the others also did this, but to a much lesser degree.