Access Research Network

[eccles]

I did something I usually don't do. I subscribed to a Web Site before checking it out properly. Access Research Network http://www.arn.org/

I had been directed to a news report there:

Discrimination Lawsuit Filed against NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab for Harassing and Demoting Supporter of Intelligent Design

As reported in ENV by Anika Smith...Supervisors at NASA's prestigious Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) illegally harassed and demoted a high-level computer system administrator for expressing support of intelligent design to co-workers, according to a discrimination lawsuit filed in California Superior Court.
The lawsuit was filed by attorneys on behalf of David Coppedge, an information technology specialist and system administrator on JPL's Cassini mission to Saturn, the most ambitious interplanetary exploration ever launched. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory is a NASA laboratory managed by the California Institute of Technology (Caltech) where robotic planetary spacecraft, such as the Mars Rovers, are built and operated. Coppedge was a "Team Lead" Systems Administrator on the Cassini mission until JPL demoted him for allegedly "pushing religion" by loaning interested co-workers DVDs supportive of intelligent design.
"For the offense of offering videos to colleagues, Coppedge faced harassment, an investigation cloaked in secrecy, and a virtual gag order on his discussion of intelligent design," said attorney Casey Luskin of Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture. Luskin serves as a consultant to the Coppedge lawsuit. "Coppedge was punished even though supervisors admitted never receiving a single complaint regarding his conversations about intelligent design prior to their investigation, and even though other employees were allowed to express diverse ideological opinions, including attacking intelligent design."

As some of you know NASA is my passion. I follow every one of it's missions. I have tonnes of printed material about NASA. In that news item I have highlighted Casey Luskin. Notice where he is from. I have a friend on Facebook from NASA. He told me that JPL was correct in what it did.

On subscribing I was given free access to a screen saver of Hubble Images: ARN Universe Screen Saver for Windows. Includes 14 spectacular Hubble Space Telescope photos and quotes from noted scientists and philosophers about the origin of the universe. When I downloaded it and ran it, to my horror the images were peppered with BS about "Intelligent Design". I immediately uninstalled that screen saver, unsubscribed from the site and sent the director, Dennis Warner a nasty e-mail.

These bloody brain dead IDers use any scullerous means to flog their bullshit.

[robertkd]

WOW, but how would you be say some researcher or what not planning a missing and some dip stick said "i'm an ID-er" it would for e be a WTF moment. I know it's harsh but honestly personally I object to taking any woo off this planet I know during the early Apollo missions there was a women that took legal action to prevent prayer and other woo although they still mentioned exodus during the pre walk broadcast,..

[eccles]

I sent this e-mail to the Discovery Institute:

Sirs,
How dare you do this to JPL. David Coppedge is there to work for NASA, not proselytize about the lies of the Bible. I am Australian, a Refugee from the "Holy" Roman Catholic Church now Atheist. I am a financial member of "Atheist Foundation of Australia" and of "Atheist Ireland". I attended the Global Atheist Convention in Melbourne, Australia last March to hears such intelligent people as Professor Richard Dawkins, A.C. Grayling, PZ Myers and Dan Barker, a former Minister who woke up to the lies he had been preaching. I have his excellent book: "Godless". He is now Atheist.

In Australia bringing up Religion in the work place is against the Law.

I am well read in Astronomy and Astrophysics and the Bible. There is no evidence of a "Creator/God" nor an "Intelligent Designer". I found out about the David Coppedge vs JPL case in the Access Research Network. I found out to my dismay that they are giving away Hubble Images as screen savers that are flogging the lies of "Intelligent Design". I found out that you people supplied an Attorney to David Coppedge. I have written to JPL in support of David Coppedge. NASA is my passion and and has been for 65 of my 70 years.

I am concerned about the lies you people tell about how many Scientists are supposed to be believers. In fact the NSF figures show somewhere about 93% of Scientists, true Scientists are ATHEIST. You people love to quote such people as Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawking out of context to show they believe in a "god". More of your lies!

I am concerned about what Christianity is doing to America by spreading it's poison (yes, I quote Christopher Hitchens). I have a quote too: "Religion is a Mental Health Hazard". I have that movie "Jesus Camp". It scares me that someone can do that to 8 year old children, force them into tears through brainwashing with the lies of the bible. I have the thesis by Kent Hovind for his "doctorate" from that fake "BIble University". At least the Law caught up with him. I am ashamed that Ken Ham comes from Australia.

 Robert C. Tobin FCD.

[eccles]

Originally Posted by robertkd

WOW, but how would you be say some researcher or what not planning a missing and some dip stick said "i'm an ID-er" it would for e be a WTF moment. I know it's harsh but honestly personally I object to taking any woo off this planet I know during the early Apollo missions there was a women that took legal action to prevent prayer and other woo although they still mentioned exodus during the pre walk broadcast,..

Buzz Aldren wanted to read from Genesis during the Apollo 8 Mission if I remember correctly without have to look up his biography that I have. He mentions his Religious beliefs a lot in that book, as does Gene Kranz in his book: "Failure is not an option"

[eccles]

Sir,
I did something I don't usually do. I subscribed before seeing what you people are about. I downloaded the screen saver, and to my dismay I see you are flogging the lies about "Intelligent Design". I found your site due to the article about the Discrimination Lawsuit filed against JPL. I have unsubscribed and removed those lying screen savers from my computers.

I have been in contact with a friend I have at NASA and he said that JPL were within their rights to fire David Coppedge. I am a refugee from the Roman Catholic Church, now Atheist. I am well read in Science and Astrophysics and in the bible. I totally reject the bible as the worst book of fiction ever written.

I read a lot about the poison Religion is spreading through America, or as I call it, the United CHRISTIAN States of America. About 93% of Scientists who are members of the NSF are Atheists. I read about the poisoning of school students minds by the Fundamentalist Churches with these "Creation" lies. Your country is fast becoming a Third World Nation.

[eccles]

Hi Robert,

I was dismayed to read your email to Dennis (which he has requested that I respond to). The sentiments you expressed are shared by many others who visit our web site but who do not understand our position on the issue of ID and religion.

First and foremost, we do not exist to proseltyze religion or religious views. This is a huge, but unfortunately common mistake about our mission. I'll explain this a bit later. Meanwhile, you should read our mission statement at ARN.ORG. Nowhere in it will you find anything about our intent to promote religion. I recommend that you read our stated approach here and especially here. This has long been posted on our web site under the ABOUT tab on our home page, and so we can't be faulted that you did not read it. If we have failed to exhibit any of the qualities we describe on those pages, then I would be interested in hearing your concerns. Please notice that we do not use or refer to anything "religious" in those remarks. There's a reason for that, ie, our mission is NOT to promote religion, as your remarks allege.

Secondly, we do not knowingly promote "lies" about Intelligent Design as you claim. That's a particularly nasty claim, and one that I take issue with. I wonder if you would care to be more specific aboout that, and if so, I'd be happy to respond appropriately. It's rather difficult to address a generalized swipe such as the one you have laid at our feet.

As for David Coppedge, I know him well and have been following his case since his misfortune began. Contrary to the information you received from your inside source at JPL, David was not "fired," but was demoted and told he would no longer remain a team lead, And when he asked for justification for the action taken by his supervisor at this government agency, he was given none with any legal standing. FInally, after waiting for months of non-action for a remedy from JPL, and mere days before he was going to file a lawsuit against them, the accusations against him were retracted, but he was not fully restored. He filed suit anyway, as anyone with spine would for the way he has been treated. Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with the facts in his case before you go off making judgments about him. His freedom of speech rights have been egregiously violated, in my opinion.

As for your status as a refugee from Catholicism, I can only say that I can appreciate your journey, being a similar refugee from the Episcopalean brand. I can
appreciate your other sentiments, and support your right to hold them. And, as is true with many others, you have made an unfortunate and erroneous judgment about us. While it is true that ID is consistent with many religious views, we don't exist to promote religion of any kind. It's important for you to note that while we DO support the rights of anyone to hold to whatever religious views they wish (and indeed, those views may even find expression on our web site from time to time...), we are not seeking to promote any religious or non-religious view.

Please don't make the mistake of thinking that our generous willingness to allow freedom of expression connotes anything other than our respect for others to freely speak their mind. Our focus is on providing resources related to Intelligent Design, and we are frankly not terribly concerned about the religious background of those who advocate for or against this position. We're more interested in the scientific and philosophical arguments related to this topic, and are willing to allow others to think and talk about where they think the evidence leads. We do happen to think there is strong evidence for intelligent design, but frankly, so do many other religious refugees such as you and I (ever hear of Anthony Flew? He was a lifelong and prominent atheist who eventually changed to a Deist, partly persuaded on the basis of the evidence related to ID).

We offer and frequently reference comments and resources at ARN.ORG written by agnostics and atheists on the topic of ID. I myself have gone to bat for atheist and agnostic professors whose careers were being threatened by people who made incorrect and unjust assumptions about their religious preferences, based on their ID views. Religious discrimination, even if based on an incorrect assessment of someone's religious views, still amounts to religious discrimination, and speaking personally, I find such judgments and related actions both offensive and illegal (in the USA).

Our main concern here at ARN is that you are being given an opportunity to explore information options about ID not found at very many other web sites. I would emphasize ther word "explore" here, since we exist to satisfy the interests of explorers. Based on your remarks to Dennis, it does not appear that you are very interested in exploring, but seem more interested in judging. I would appeal to your reasonableness and ask you to reconsider. And, as is true with ANY educational endeavor - there are bound to be errors even in the books and resources you will find at ARN.ORG, and where any errors are found, as I said, if you would care to point out specifics to me, I can address those with you.

As for your other judgment, that we seem to be somehow aligned with efforts towards the creation of a "United CHRISTIAN States of America," and your comments about the "poison" of religion spreading throughout our country, I can't say much about "religion," except that I would agree with you that many "religious" beliefs appear to me to be misguided. But it also seems to me that that the fact of the matter is, a reliance upon the Almighty was very much a part of the founding our nation. That's just a fact, pure and simple. The first prayer offered up by a Philadelphia preacher at our Continental Congress in 1774 began with these words:
"O! Lord our heavenly Father, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords... look down in mercy, we beseech thee; on these our American states who have fled to thee from the rod of the oppressor and thrown themselves upon thy gracious protection, desiring henceforth to be dependent only on thee." You can read the rest of his prayer here.
And in case you might think this was a one-time or accidental event, I refer you to the Day of Fasting and Prayer that was proclaimed and widely observed when Great Britain threatened to set up a blockade in Boston Harbor in 1775. These were very intelligent and great men who participated in this action, and I hope you don't lump them into the cause of that religious "poison" you speak of. They were advocates of the freedoms we continue to enjoy today.

Nevertheless, we at ARN do not exist to promot religion. We simply wish to ensure that everyone, including you Robert, is free to EXPLORE ID arguments, regardless of what religious views you currently have or come away with after your consideration of ID arguments. We believe that each one of us are intelligent enough to make up our own minds about such matters.

Another erroneous judgment you make about us is that we are promoting "these CREATION lies." Not quite. What we are doing is providing you with an opportunity to explore a topic that many people have dismissed for a variety of reasons. If you care to dig and explore this topic, you'll be hard pressed to find a web site that offers a more comprehensive set of resources. We also make a distinction between Creation and ID. Creationists openly advocate connections to religious texts while ID prefers to focus on scientific and philosophical considerations. We believe in allowing everyone the freedom to express their views and make up their own mind on this or any other topic. That's significantly different from the way your remarks portray us.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that simply because Intelligent Design is consistent with the idea of a "God of the Universe" that we are attempting to shove that thought or any other religious notion down your throat. We're not. We're simply saying "here are some resources, should you care to explore this topic. You decide what you wish to make of it."

As for us rapidly becoming a third world nation, I share your concerns about that, but perhaps not for the same reasons. If you read your history more carefully, I think you'll find that Christian values have been a part of American culture since it's inception, and is hardly something new.

Anyway - I hope my sentiments help you to better understand where we are coming from, and I hope you will reconsider your ill-informed judgments about us.


Kind regards,

Kevin Wirth

ARN Director of Product Development and Media Relations
(360) 990-5422 (M-F, 9-5 PST or -8 GMT)

What a load of Bullshit!

[robertkd]

Well of course their not pushing ID or religion or wooness, I am surprised at your attacks WOW some of the links from their site.

then their is the propaganda linked to from the site like this one from the banner at the top of their home page.

http://www.theonlywayback.com/

The problem I see is the more books that are published the more "pseudo" credibility ID and the other half backed notions these groups push. Remember their claim, "if it's written in a book it must be true"

[eccles]

I'm at WAR with Ider's and other Christian dickheads The United Christian States of America is full of them.

I had a look at http://www.theonlywayback.com/. Jesus Bloody Christ. In fact I am printing it so I can read it and then probably puke.

Wirth states: "Nevertheless, we at ARN do not exist to promot religion."
Then he quotes a PRAYER. What is that if it is not Prosletyzing.

He referred to Antony Flew. He would be an arch enemy of Freethinkers. He was only a Philosopher, and what is that? A Bullshit Artist (Mel Brooks: "History of the World. Part 1"). I have a very low opinion of philosophy. Sorry A.G. Grayling, but I told him what I thought of Philosophy at the GAC and he more or less agreed with me. And he is Atheist, so he is good.

I certainly put a flea in the ear of the Access Research Network.

[davo]

define philosophy Dunno why you have a low opinion on it can you expand?

AC Grayling is cool, it was good to meet him.

[eccles]

Originally Posted by davo

define philosophy Dunno why you have a low opinion on it can you expand?

AC Grayling is cool, it was good to meet him.

Philosophy is the study of general and fundamental problems concerning matters such as existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy

I find it a bit hard to define philosophy myself, as I am a follower of pure Science, not airiey fairy ideas. I aksed Grayling why he mentioned "Metaphysics" at the beginning of his speech. I stated that I follow Science and Metaphysics is a swear word to scientists. He did say "Well, you are right about that".