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  #21  
Old 27th May 2010, 02:20 PM
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Worldslaziestbusker Worldslaziestbusker is offline
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Default Re: how can we best explain our existence ?

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Originally Posted by Tsid502 View Post
Sure, i believe it. Based on the fact, that the universe had a beginning, we can deduce, there was a cause.

http://www.everystudent.com/journeys/who2.html

(1) Absolutely Nothing never existed. If it had, there would still be Absolutely Nothing now. But Something Else exists. You, for example.

(2) Since Absolutely Nothing never existed, there was always a time when there was something in existence. This something we can call the Eternal Something. The Eternal Something has no beginning and no end, has no needs that It Itself cannot meet, can do whatever is possible that can be done, and will always be superior to anything It produces.

(3) The Eternal Something is not a machine, controlled or programmed by any force outside Itself. And the Eternal Something will not produce out of necessity, since It has no needs. Therefore, if It produces Something Else, It must decide to do so. That means that the Eternal Something has a will; thus, It is personal. Therefore, the Eternal Something must actually be an Eternal Someone (or Someones).

So this cause must decide to create the universe, and therefore be PERSONAL. If it is personal, it must have had a reason to create our universe.
The cosmological argument, both in standard and jumbo Kalam size, have been argued on this forum previously. I have better things to type today than deal with you mixing up your precepts and conclusions. You've barged in with a question you figure you've already answered, but I've already heard it all before.
Fail
Try again.
WLB
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  #22  
Old 27th May 2010, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: how can we best explain our existence ?

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Originally Posted by Tsid502 View Post
Sure, i believe it. Based on the fact, that the universe had a beginning, we can deduce, there was a cause.

http://www.everystudent.com/journeys/who2.html

(1) Absolutely Nothing never existed. If it had, there would still be Absolutely Nothing now. But Something Else exists. You, for example.

(2) Since Absolutely Nothing never existed, there was always a time when there was something in existence. This something we can call the Eternal Something. The Eternal Something has no beginning and no end, has no needs that It Itself cannot meet, can do whatever is possible that can be done, and will always be superior to anything It produces.

(3) The Eternal Something is not a machine, controlled or programmed by any force outside Itself. And the Eternal Something will not produce out of necessity, since It has no needs. Therefore, if It produces Something Else, It must decide to do so. That means that the Eternal Something has a will; thus, It is personal. Therefore, the Eternal Something must actually be an Eternal Someone (or Someones).

So this cause must decide to create the universe, and therefore be PERSONAL. If it is personal, it must have had a reason to create our universe.
The 'g-d of the gaps' argument is pointless.

Our species has seen 'gaps' since its beginning.... and a huge number of them have already been filled. Should our species survive long enough, we could one day fill them all. We could even one day find a strong hypothesis for the 'what happened before the universe began' question. Because the 'What has happened before' could happen again creating a sister universe. If the phenomena became 'technologically observable' to us ... we could finally observe it.

The 'Gaps' argument is not 'proof' of an entity\intelligent creator.

Last edited by atheist_angel; 27th May 2010 at 02:58 PM.
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  #23  
Old 27th May 2010, 03:26 PM
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Default Re: how can we best explain our existence ?

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Originally Posted by Tsid502 View Post
A lot. The finding of the truth, and eventually even the reason of our existence. It is a essential question to our existence, a question which every human being should make to itself.
Why? Can't you be happy just knowing you are here and doing kind caring things for your fellow humans and animals on this planet? I don't need a reason for my existence, I just accept that I exist and that when I die I will be gone and that's enough for me.

I'm sure if I was a scientist I'd find the question a great challenge to discover the answer to, but as someone who just ain't smart enough to work it out, interesting as the answer may be, I'm content to just do the right thing while I'm alive.
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  #24  
Old 27th May 2010, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: how can we best explain our existence ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsid502
A lot. The finding of the truth, and eventually even the reason of our existence. It is a essential question to our existence, a question which every human being should make to itself.
I came into existence because my parents had sex. My ultimate purpose is to pass on my DNA. My personal purposes are those that I decide for myself. A knowledge of the why's and wherefore's of science, philosophy, art etc are just icing on the cake. Seems clear enough to me, and omnipotent creators seem to have played no part.
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  #25  
Old 27th May 2010, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: how can we best explain our existence ?

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Originally Posted by Tsid502 View Post
how can we best explain our existence ?
by being.

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what do you think is the cause of the existence of our universe ?
FAIL


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I think there are 3 options.
<nonsense snipped>
If you agree...
I don't.

Have you considered there may be no "explanation of our existence" you can ken, and that this completely fails to mean "therefore god"?
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  #26  
Old 27th May 2010, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: how can we best explain our existence ?

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First, the singularity did not appear in space. Space did not exist before the big Bang and in fact, had to begin inside the singularity. Prior to the singularity, nothing existed. So, where did it come from and why? We don’t know. All we do know is that we exist within space and at one time it did not exist and neither did we.
We do not know that at one time nothing existed.

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Beyond the point is nothing. The balloon – space – has simply disappeared. Play this scenario in forward time and it represents the coming-into-being of a universe from literally nothing, with space itself appearing. So it’s not an explosion in a pre-existing space. Space itself appears. And so, for that matter, does time.
What is 'space'? If all of matter/energy is compressed into a singularity why be surprised if nothing is outside? It is known that the Universe is expanding and expected that it will one day contract. Not a big bang but a series of big bangs.

Quote:
And there's no known physics that could reverse a contracting universe and suddenly make it bounce before it hits the singularity. The whole theory was simply a theoretical abstraction. Physics never supported it.
It's physics jim, but not as we know it.
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  #27  
Old 27th May 2010, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: how can we best explain our existence ?

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Originally Posted by jdadl1 View Post
I came into existence because my parents had sex. My ultimate purpose is to pass on my DNA. My personal purposes are those that I decide for myself. A knowledge of the why's and wherefore's of science, philosophy, art etc are just icing on the cake. Seems clear enough to me, and omnipotent creators seem to have played no part.
Completely false. Passing on DNA is not a purpose of life, it's just that DNA that can be passed on survives for longer and so is more likely to still be around while DNA that doesn't pass itself on is less likely to be still around. Hence DNA that expresses itself in ways that lead to it being passed on is most common. It has nothing to do with purpose.
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  #28  
Old 27th May 2010, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: how can we best explain our existence ?

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Originally Posted by owheelj View Post
It has nothing to do with purpose.
Would someone please write that on the wall in large red letters. Thanks.

Edit: Matter of fact, I might adopt it for a while.
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  #29  
Old 27th May 2010, 07:26 PM
Tsid502 Tsid502 is offline
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Default Re: how can we best explain our existence ?

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Originally Posted by Loki View Post
Got any evidence or just making stuff up? This is not even reasonable or logical.

What caused your cause?
Is it logical in your view to believe, that nothing caused everything ? Or that the universe is self-caused ? Cause and effect at the same time ? God has no cause, since he is by definition infinite. God had no beginning, and has no end. He simply IS.
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  #30  
Old 27th May 2010, 07:30 PM
Tsid502 Tsid502 is offline
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Default Re: how can we best explain our existence ?

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Originally Posted by owheelj View Post
What do you even mean by cause?

I can't help but notice the contradictions in what you've written too;
yes, it is in fact a contradiction. I think the site i linked to did put it in this way, to make it easyer to understand for someone, that is not used to think all implications through. The keypoint is however, that God must have always existed, otherwise there would have to be a infinite regress of cause and effect, which does not make sense. To think about time is not easy. Its rather difficult, of difficult comprehension.
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