Sydney Anglicans would deny families choice on ethics

[Lee]

Sunday, May 9, 2010

The Atheist Foundation of Australia (AFA) has hit back at claims by the Sydney Anglican diocese that ethics classes are undermining religious education. The diocese claims that enrolment in religious classes has dropped 47 per cent since the introduction of an ethics trial.

AFA President, David Nicholls, said ethics classes were "a matter of choice for parents".

"Secular ethics classes are not undermining religious classes: rather, parents are just voting with their feet," Nicholls said.

"If religious classes are not being presented in a way that feels relevant to today's families, it's important that they have another option."

"Allowing ethics classes is about maximising choice for families. It is a shame that the Sydney Anglicans would strip families of this choice," Nicholls added.
Nicholls said secular ethics classes offered children an excellent opportunity to think about ethical issues.

Media Contact:

David Nicholls
President
Atheist Foundation of Australia Inc

Ph: (08) 8835 2269
Email: info@atheistfoundation.org.au
Website: http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au
Forum: http://atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/index.php
Convention: http://www.atheistconvention.org.au

[kanook]

Originally Posted by Lee

Sunday, May 9, 2010

The Atheist Foundation of Australia (AFA) has hit back at claims by the Sydney Anglican diocese that ethics classes are undermining religious education.

I think what is undermining Religious Education is the fact that the World is finally starting to grow up and is dumping this religious dribble! Maybe people have seen the real light of truth and common sense, maybe they see on the news, online and in papers the pain and misery committed in the name of religion.

The church is losing control over peoples minds, its fairytale stories of Heaven and Hell, God and Jesus are seen as just that, fairytales.

Parents know that Religious Education is not the place for children to learn about ethics and morality, If you ask me the Bible should have a big "R18" sticker on front and should not be available to children, considering all the sex, incest, murder, rape that is mentioned between its covers.

[66 vegie]

Children get the fairefloss version of the bible at school...reel them in with the lies and cute animal stories first...then hit them with the hard stuff once their good and scared thinking the devil will get them if they don't play by the rules.

[Sanity personified]

We gotta stop this reliogious nonsense or else Gen 'Z' will literally be the Generation of Zombies. For fuck sake, anybody that can do anything to stop this child abuse, please.

[RealityRules]

The numbers undermine the Sydney Anglicans' position about religious education: they are just 1.5 to 2.5% of the population in "'their' Diocese" i.e. 60 - 100,00 of a population of 4mill. Therefore, their influence on religious education is tenuous, although it might be argued that SRE is their best bet for increasing it.

I saw reference to one church having gained 6 adherents through evangelising: if there are 300 churches in the diocese, that extrapolates to 1800 - maybe enough to cover deaths, given the average age of parishioners is probably 60-65 years.

They are way louder than they deserve to be - heading for the cult status Peter Jensen 'joked' about.

[kanook]

Whilst watching Insight last week the church leaders kept on saying that it was unfair to put Ethics classes on at the same time as so called Religious instruction or scripture or whatever they call that dribble.

The church members in the audience kept saying our only complaint is that the children who do scripture etc miss out on ethics class and thats not fair. It was so obvious by listening to them talk that they actually are dirty on the fact that kids are being removed from scripture and sent to ethics by their parents, so less bums on seats for the churches!

They kept on spilling their real motives during the show, they cant even be honest on National TV. They dont care about kids missing out on Ethics classes, they are just dirty because they are losing the next generation of mindless sheep.

I would actually love to know why they are allowed to teach R.E. or Scripture in public schools anyway? It sends a conflicting and confusing message to young ones about history and science. Why cant these kids get their R.E. at home or at church?

Why is it allowed in school?

[Mentally Saturated]

Originally Posted by kanook

Whilst watching Insight last week the church leaders kept on saying that it was unfair to put Ethics classes on at the same time as so called Religious instruction or scripture or whatever they call that dribble.

The church members in the audience kept saying our only complaint is that the children who do scripture etc miss out on ethics class and thats not fair.

I'm wondering if some of those complaints aren't genuine concern ? Now before anyone bites my head off for making such a suggestion.. here's the fun part.

If religious parents are complaining that their kids are "missing out" on these ethics classes, one has to wonder "why is this so ?" Here's a couple of possible answers:

- They're hearing from other kids and teachers about the content of the classes. I expect they're learning that the kids aren't being taught what to think, they're being taught how to think. They're seeing the engagement the kids have with the lessons (kids often love to be given responsibility, and they're obviously continuing to talk about what they're covering in these classes afterwards in the playground or at home with parents/family/friends, too), the enjoyment they're getting out of it, and something in the parents' brains is telling them "Hey, wait a minute, these classes seem to have at least some value".

- They're realising that the kids in the ethics trials are getting something of value that their own kids in the RE classes aren't getting. ("Yes, they're being taught to think for themselves, as opposed to being indoctrinated", would be my response to that, but anyway..) Few things get parents in a flap more quickly than them thinking their kids are missing out on something.


Are they admitting the ethics trial classes have value ? If so, does that mean they're also admitting that religious classes can't teach their children everything they need to live in a modern world ? And does this mean that they're also admitting that there is ethical/moral content missing from RE classes ? That might imply that secular ethics have more value than religious ones. Oh, the irony...

If the ethics trial classes have NO value to these parents, then why would they be concerned with when the classes are being held, and not just that they're being held at ALL ?


Methinks their actions honestly speak louder than their words.

If they're going to complain about the ethics classes being on at the same time as RE, we need to publicly pressure them as to WHY they object to this, and then point out that they're actually admitting in no small way that their own (and others') religious ethics aren't all they're made out to be. Either way, I think this is a win/win situation for us.

Please David & AFA staff... keep this issue in the media alive... more press releases !!

Gary

[kanook]

Originally Posted by Mentally Saturated

I'm wondering if some of those complaints aren't genuine concern ? Now before anyone bites my head off for making such a suggestion.. here's the fun part.

If religious parents are complaining that their kids are "missing out" on these ethics classes, one has to wonder "why is this so ?" Here's a couple of possible answers:

- They're hearing from other kids and teachers about the content of the classes. I expect they're learning that the kids aren't being taught what to think, they're being taught how to think.
Gary

I agree, I think the churches have placed themselves in a difficult position, by raising objections that RE students are missing out they are actually saying that the ethics classes are good, and more popular than their RE or Scripture classes, they are not teaching students what students and parents want.

I was just really annoyed by the Anglican, and Catholic representitives in the audience saying that their reason for ojection was it was unfair for RE Students to miss out. It really came across to me that they wanted students who didnt go to RE to spend their time in Non-constructive work, which I gues is kind of ironic as you cant get more non-constructive that RE.

As I mentioned earlier they actually let it slip a few times that they were concerned over the numbers of students who were leaving RE.

Unfortunately when you see what these RE classes involve you really get angry! They treat children like they are idiots, they spin their tales of God, Jesus and the bible, and dont teach what is important and true. Children are smarter than we give them credit for, if they are allowed to see the facts of both sides many will see religion for what it is, when these children are bombarded at school , at home, and at church then their chances of seeing the truth are much lower.

[RealityRules]

Sydney Anglicans are only about 1-2% of the population in the diocese (area) they "administer" - they claim to be 60,000 out of about 4 million (greater Sydney area and Wollongong.

If Anglicanism has been the predominant Christian denomination in Sydney (and Australia as a whole), and is now only 1-2% of the church-aligned Christian-Protestant population, the other Protestant populations, such as Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, etc are likely to be a lot less. Most of these 'others' seem to be condensed into the Uniting Church. It seems the biggest denomination is the Cathlics. Yet some schools run SRE classes by several Christian denominations - virtually competing with eadch other.

The Anglicans admit they need "the influence" over the children.

So, the pleading is special pleading, and more so because a reasonable proportion of each flock will go to their faith schools: in some suburbs the Cathlic primary and secondary schools are twice as big as public, secular schools.

They are also fallacially appealing to tradition - a tradition that had to be enacted to smooth secular administration for even oversight in the 1800s - also appealling to authority (of some kind).

[GodwinGrey]

Originally Posted by RealityRules

The Atheist Foundation of Australia (AFA) has hit back at claims by the Sydney Anglican diocese that ethics classes are undermining religious education. The diocese claims that enrolment in religious classes has dropped 47 per cent since the introduction of an ethics trial.

My understanding is that a few kids positively opted out of RI class already and so must be added to the 47%. This probably means that the preferably secular are already over the 50% mark, which is the reason the trials are up and running.

Peter Jensen can 'Rage rage against the dying of the light' all he wants but the switch is going off on his power tripping tax avoidance scheme. In fact isn't that the time when religion really prospered, 'The dark ages' back you go Peter there's a good chap.