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  #141  
Old 2nd May 2010, 05:41 PM
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Atrax Robustus Atrax Robustus is offline
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Default Re: Belgium passes bill to ban the burqa

It's interesting watching this debate. The reaction of people here - and on other forums covers the entire spectrum of personal opinion. The emotive comment and to-and-fro over the introduction of these 'recent' laws is even more fascinating when, in all but the most occasional debates I've been watching, no-one who is involved is aware that the burqa was officially banned previously.

I find it a bit frustrating that a record of public debate such as what we all enjoy (aka the net) wasn't available in 1938 when Shah Pahlavi banned the burqa in Persia (Iran) as part of his modernisation model. There was significant opposition from the imams (no surprise there) and from many Iranian women. While the legal ban was lifted in 1941, government policy over the following 4o+ years made hijab largely passe and it had become culturally irrelevant; to the extent that the niqab and burqa was virtually non-existent in Iran up until the Islamic Revolution in 1980.

Funnily enough, the women in 1980 resisted the mandated wearing of jilbab (not burqa) when the Theocratic government decreed it as one of their first initiatives.

Anyhoo. I haven't been able to find much on the net regarding the Belgian government's justification for enacting this ban (if anyone finds some relevant links I'd appreciate same), but it would be interesting to see what the reasons actually are.

If people want to ban the burqa - GO AHEAD I say, but it can't be discriminatory. If a government want's to ban the burqa, then it must also ban anything else that can be identified as a religious item of clothing including cassocks, habits, hijab scarves, turbans, taqiya, yamulka, white-collars, crosses, stars-of-david, sari, fedoras (can't forget the hassidic jews), ghutra, thawb, igal . . . . . . .

Personal opinion and totally OT: I think that the Australian Government should be taking immediate action regarding the banning of certain clothing here:

Ban public wearing of those bloody elasticised pants along with tight jeans accompanied by midriff tops for any female who is greater than a size 12.
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  #142  
Old 2nd May 2010, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: terrorists in burkas

Quote:
Originally Posted by GodwinGrey View Post
the burqa - Of limited use as camouflage.
The burqa is of supreme importance in Afghanistan and Pakistan - and it might well be worn as a form of camouflage by some. Wearing it prevents young girls having acid thrown in their faces for a start.
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  #143  
Old 2nd May 2010, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: terrorists in burkas

I feel very unomfortable around people who hide behind a mask. To be fair I consider make up to be a mask. I prefer talking to people who have nothing to hide.
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  #144  
Old 2nd May 2010, 09:11 PM
Auzziegob Atheist Auzziegob Atheist is offline
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Default Re: terrorists in burkas

G'day owheelji,.,I never over simplify anything about dealing with godgobbers and religion.I HATE all religion and godgobbers and their ruination of this planet.
I fully understand all the issues dealing with this muslim burka crap.
My post had nothing to do with your comments or anyone elses.My veiws are my own and I stand by all of them.
The difference between me and godgobbers is definitely about beliefs.
Appeasement by some Atheists in letting godgobbers do what they want,makes me wanna vomit.
Appeasement of Hitler led to WW2.
Appeasement of the pope and his crazy warmongering rhetoric and his wish to ressurect the holy roman empire could lead to WW3.
Last of all mate,your question about banning Atheism is nonsense.
If godgobbers and any flockerlalians wanna become Atheistic,then let them.
I've got my own brand of Atheism.I have a very happy and vociferous HATRED towards godgobbers which gives me immense pleasure and satisfaction.
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  #145  
Old 2nd May 2010, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: terrorists in burkas

Quote:
Originally Posted by owheelj View Post
How do you think religious people would respond if religion was banned? Would they just become atheists, or would they fight it?
People that are deluded by religious beliefs, in my experience, hold the beliefs as more important than the examination of reality. Many of the Christians I know have little concern for the reality of our universe, only in the mainenance and propagation of their deluded rantings.
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  #146  
Old 2nd May 2010, 10:09 PM
Auzziegob Atheist Auzziegob Atheist is offline
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Default Re: terrorists in burkas

Quote:
Originally Posted by owheelj View Post
I sympathise with your sentiment but I think you're over simplifying things and misunderstanding the issues, especially if this is aimed at my comments in the Belgians banning the Burqa topic.


The difference lies not in our beliefs. I think Islam, and all religions are terrible and I would love it if they went away. I particularly find many aspects of Islam abhorrent, and I do think burqas are a significant part of the culture of the oppression of women in Islam.

However I disagree with your approach. I don't think the actions you're suggesting will make religion go away, make our lives safer or reduce religious conflict and irrational behaviour. I don't really know what impact those actions would have, but I would lean towards them creating more religious conflict and violence, not less.

So it's not an issue of "appeasement." It's an issue of figuring the policies that will be the most effective at creating a society without all the problems of religion, and ideally without religion at all.

Let me ask you a question. How would you respond if atheism was "banned." Would you become religious? Why/why not? Therefore, how do you think religious people would respond if religion was banned? Would they just become atheists, or would they fight it?





G'day owheelji,.,I never over simplify anything about dealing with godgobbers and religion.I HATE all religion and godgobbers and their ruination of this planet.
I fully understand all the issues dealing with this muslim burka crap.
My post had nothing to do with your comments or anyone elses.My veiws are my own and I stand by all of them.
The difference between me and godgobbers is definitely about beliefs.
Appeasement by some Atheists in letting godgobbers do what they want,makes me wanna vomit.
Appeasement of Hitler led to WW2.
Appeasement of the pope and his crazy warmongering rhetoric and his wish to ressurect the holy roman empire could lead to WW3.
Last of all mate,your question about banning Atheism is nonsense.
If godgobbers and any flockerlalians wanna become Atheistic,then let them.
I've got my own brand of Atheism.I have a very happy and vociferous HATRED towards godgobbers which gives me immense pleasure and satisfaction.
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  #147  
Old 2nd May 2010, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: Belgium passes bill to ban the burqa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradley View Post
Very good example, but where you say words to the effect of "I have to remove my helmet, they shouldn't be allowed to wear a burqa", I see it as a good example of why motorcycle helmets shouldn't be banned either.
I'm not sure about that. Even though I find removing my helmet a pain I support the right of businesses to refuse service to anyone in disguise - if only for the sake of the nerves of the poor sod behind the counter.
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  #148  
Old 2nd May 2010, 10:15 PM
Sir Patrick Crocodile Sir Patrick Crocodile is offline
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Default Re: terrorists in burkas

I think we should ban indoctrination as opposed to religion, and we should separate it from the legal system and call it a mental disorder.

I can indeed understand your hate for Islam having been a Muslim before myself, only to find it is all bullshit, but I do not think we should be telling people how to think (by banning religion) but we should be able to stop them getting extra benefits and/or indoctrinating children into it.
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  #149  
Old 2nd May 2010, 10:29 PM
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Default Re: terrorists in burkas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auzziegob Atheist View Post
G'day owheelji,.,I never over simplify anything about dealing with godgobbers and religion.I HATE all religion and godgobbers and their ruination of this planet.
I fully understand all the issues dealing with this muslim burka crap.
My post had nothing to do with your comments or anyone elses.My veiws are my own and I stand by all of them.
The difference between me and godgobbers is definitely about beliefs.
Appeasement by some Atheists in letting godgobbers do what they want,makes me wanna vomit.
Appeasement of Hitler led to WW2.
Appeasement of the pope and his crazy warmongering rhetoric and his wish to ressurect the holy roman empire could lead to WW3.
Last of all mate,your question about banning Atheism is nonsense.
If godgobbers and any flockerlalians wanna become Atheistic,then let them.
I've got my own brand of Atheism.I have a very happy and vociferous HATRED towards godgobbers which gives me immense pleasure and satisfaction.
Geez, I was once religious, too!... I must say, You sound like you've got some scary notions. Not wanting to put words in your mouth, maybe it would help me to understand where you draw the line. Where do you draw the line? How deep does your hatred run? You sound like you're ready to go all Hitler on the Religious ... just like Hitler had done to the Jews et al.

My brand of atheism is about the acceptance that there are no g-ds ... not starting a Concentration Camp or similar! (yes, you do sound that way at the moment.) I can understand you feelings about the state of the planet, but not this 'hate all' 'ban all' thing.

Last edited by atheist_angel; 2nd May 2010 at 11:43 PM. Reason: emphasis on the question
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  #150  
Old 2nd May 2010, 10:30 PM
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Lord Blackadder Lord Blackadder is offline
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Default Re: Belgium passes bill to ban the burqa

Quote:
Originally Posted by NakedApe View Post
I'm not sure about that. Even though I find removing my helmet a pain I support the right of businesses to refuse service to anyone in disguise - if only for the sake of the nerves of the poor sod behind the counter.
I used to work for the Which Bank. My nerves used to be slightly on edge if I saw people lurking about whose faces you couldn't clearly see... Considering that a friend of mine who was a bank teller had been involved in four armed holdups in the 1980s (he now works in admin - I wonder why), I believe that any business has the right to turf off their premises anyone refusing to uncover, regardless of the type of head-cover.
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