The stars are right.

[formless777]

Hello.

I find that having looked into religion in great detail that it is an empty drum that makes a lot of noise. I have studied Comparative religion, Anthropology, Philosophy and Theology, looking into all the Large religions and a great many small ones, and the conclusion I have reached is that Science does the same things only better.

I am not entirely prepared to rule out claims which some people would dub "supernatural", let me explain why...

My favorite example is from the French Academy which strenuously asserted in the 18th Century that "there are no rocks in the sky, ergo rocks cannot fall from the sky". This was in response to reports of rocks falling from the sky, which later turned out to be meteorites and are now part of the scientific corpus.

Yes, science can get it wrong, but generally it doesn't. Skepticism is healthy.

I am a firm believer in accupuncture which is supported by evidence based medicine studies and which I have experienced having a direct, near immediate, and beneficial effect on my physiology. As a result I am also prepared to give the theory of "Chi" the benefit of the doubt.

Do I regard these things as supernatural ? No. I think science has yet to fully understand them, that is all. I hope that I will see this rectified in my lifetime.

I am also a fan of the works of the Horror Writer H.P. Lovecraft who wrote with an Atheist audience in mind.

[wearestardust]

Allow me to say, on behalf of the Dunwich Horror: om nom nom nom.

Originally Posted by formless777

I am not entirely prepared to rule out claims which some people would dub "supernatural", let me explain why...

My favorite example is from the French Academy which strenuously asserted in the 18th Century that "there are no rocks in the sky, ergo rocks cannot fall from the sky". This was in response to reports of rocks falling from the sky, which later turned out to be meteorites and are now part of the scientific corpus.

Yes, science can get it wrong, but generally it doesn't. Skepticism is healthy.

If you mean: "science has yet to explain everything, and in future we may make new discoveries which turn out to support 'supernatural' things that we currently reject on the basis of no evidence", then I would sort of agree, though I think it unlikely and at the moment of not much practical relevance.

But if you mean: "science sometimes gets things wrong, so we should provisionally accept the possibility of supernatural cliams for which there is no evidence, because one day the evidence might turn up", then I would be inclined to disagree with you.

I am a firm believer in accupuncture which is supported by evidence based medicine studies and which I have experienced having a direct, near immediate, and beneficial effect on my physiology. As a result I am also prepared to give the theory of "Chi" the benefit of the doubt.

I can see we may have a number of disagreements on several things in this para, but not here, elsewhere. Can you provide references to said studies? That said, believing in CAM is not necessarily inconsistent with atheism.

[two dogs]

G'day formless777, and welcome to the AFA fora.

Originally Posted by formless777

...
and which I have experienced having a direct, near immediate, and beneficial effect on my physiology.
...

Anecdote != evidence

Originally Posted by wearestardust

...
Can you provide references to said studies?
...

+1

[Sanity personified]

Originally Posted by formless777

Hello.

I find that having looked into religion in great detail that it is an empty drum that makes a lot of noise.

Couldn't agree more, it is all talk, but it doesn't really say anything.

Originally Posted by formless777

Hello.
"there are no rocks in the sky, ergo rocks cannot fall from the sky".

That to which we would typically refer to as the sky is simply the resultant diffraction of light passing through a fog of aerosolised particles.

The other reference to the sky may be taken as the inclusion of space. That said, there are a great many rocks in the sky, and thus the initial premise is at fault therefore such is the conclusion.

[atheist_angel]

Originally Posted by formless777

I am not entirely prepared to rule out claims which some people would dub "supernatural", let me explain why...

My favorite example is from the French Academy which strenuously asserted in the 18th Century that "there are no rocks in the sky, ergo rocks cannot fall from the sky". This was in response to reports of rocks falling from the sky, which later turned out to be meteorites and are now part of the scientific corpus.

Welcome formless777.

No, I would say that chunks of rock falling to the earth is quite natural, indeed.

Do you have a supernatural example that is actually 'supernatural'?

[Sanity personified]

Originally Posted by atheist_angel

Do you have a supernatural example that is actually 'supernatural'?

I would go so far as to say that it is impossible for something to in fact be supernatural. If something does indeed happen then it MUST have a rational and perfectly natural cause. Thus it is possible only for something to appear supernatural to anybody that does not have sufficient knowledge and understanding to comprehend that which has been observed.

Something appearing as supernatural means only that we have yet to determine the natural explanation. It does not mean that there is no explanation.

Anybody who claims there to be supernatural phenomena is actually professing their own arrogance as what they are saying is "This is beyond MY comprehension, therefore it does not have a natural explanation."

Either that or they have read the bible and are gullible enough to take as fact its hollow dribblings without seeking imperical evidence which after two thousand years is still yet to have been forthcoming.

So any claimant of supernatural activity is either arrogant, gullible or trying to take you for a ride.

[Mentally Saturated]

Originally Posted by formless777

..."there are no rocks in the sky, ergo rocks cannot fall from the sky".

I'm not so sure. Just ask any pilot who has flown in Papua New Guinea. It's well known that there are rocks in the clouds up there..

Welcome to the forums.

Gary

[ugu80]

Does acupuncture work or is it just another example of mind over matter. I have a chinese doctor who gave me a course of acupuncture after dislocation of my leg in a motorcycle accident. Being a sceptic I didn't believe in acupuncture, however, I do have an open mind and took the needle sticking with an attitude of 'lets see how it goes'. My doctor was shocked when I informed him it made no difference whatsoever.

I've searched the web and the 'science' of acupuncture seems very inconclusive.

[iamjustme]

Originally Posted by ugu80

I do have an open mind and took the needle sticking with an attitude of 'lets see how it goes'. My doctor was shocked when I informed him it made no difference whatsoever.

I've tried it a few times, as well as the more modern version that physios do which has a different name and sounds more "sciency".

On one occasion the needles in my knee made my whole lower leg hurt like fire, particularly at the point of the injury (very badly sprained ankle). So yeah, he did hit a nerve. I'm pretty sure that it had no actual effect once the needle was out though (mind you, I did demand he remove it fairly quickly).