Question about evolution

[Sharpie44]

So I’m sitting here restoring a Krag 30/40 model 1898 rifle from the Spanish American war and I just had an odd thought. It could just be because this room is not very well ventilated and I’m using some really nasty chemicals but I realized I don't understand something about evolution.
I have a tropical fish tank in my room and many of the fish in it didn’t exist a while back. The fancy guppies I have look very little like the ones that were originally taken from the wild. It wasn’t natural selection but selective bleeding that made them that way but it would seem to me that that still proves the mechanism. So how is this not an example of evolution?

[Duffy]

In Richard Dawkin's The Genius of Charles Darwin, he uses Darwins love of breeding pidgeons to make that exact point. Bird breeders choose the best features and breeds a superior bird. Excellent example of evolution.

[Hell Girl]

I ordered this book from America and found it excellent. It's written in a way that most people could understand, and is fascinating and enlightening. I haven't seen it on sale in Australia yet, but if you want to know more about evolution it's well worth purchasing.

[SchizoDeluxe]

Of course, evolution doesn't necessarily pick the best of the best from a species, sometimes it selects what's best for that species in that environment which doesn't necessarily make it great in a different situation. The environment plays a big role in this, we as humans are part of that as well, even our language has changed based on the region we live in. It's not always as simple as the definition explains, it is a fairly complex thing.

[Sharpie44]

O i understand All that. I've read the origin of species and a number of other books on it.

I just can't figure out how my fish example or Dawkins example of pigeons isn't definitive proof of evolution. I've heard people talk about micro evolution opposed to macro but the argument didn't seem like it held water.

I have genetically engineered zebra dainos that are the color of highlighter ink. They might not count but I can give you many examples of tropical fish that we have created through selective breeding.

They’re telling me going from this.
http://comenius.susqu.edu/BI/202/Ani...IATA/guppy.jpg

To this
http://www.guppy-fish.com/guppy/img/...e/13th-3rd.jpg
Isn't evolution.

Originally Posted by SchizoDeluxe

Of course, evolution doesn't necessarily pick the best of the best from a species, sometimes it selects what's best for that species in that environment which doesn't necessarily make it great in a different situation. The environment plays a big role in this, we as humans are part of that as well, even our language has changed based on the region we live in. It's not always as simple as the definition explains, it is a fairly complex thing.

[davo]

Evolution is a fact, as posted elsewhere on the board, the mechanics of it is the 'Theory of Evolution', it's just these people that complain about it don't understand scientific terms.

Great example of one of the many facets of the evolutionary process there Sharpie44!

[Fiery]

Sharpie- "They" are telling you it isn't evolution, because "they" don't WANT it to be evolution. Goddidit. And if you convince them that the little fishies really did change than that is an example of MICRO evolution which is not MACRO evolution which has never been observed.

*sigh*

You are looking for reason, Sharpie, amongst a group where faith trumps science. It isn't logical, it isn't rational, it is simply what they want to believe.

[GUDLUSS]

The first one, of course. To uphold creation and 6, 000 year old earth, you ignore a bunch of other things through all-denying faith.
The AIDs virus is mutating
"All other evolution is false"

The Tomb of Jesus suggests Maryw as the wife of Jesus
"That's a hoax"

Radiocarbon dating shows that there were civilisations in 30, 000 BCE
"Radiocarbon dating is false"
And so on...

[Donna]

Originally Posted by Hell Girl

I ordered this book from America and found it excellent. It's written in a way that most people could understand, and is fascinating and enlightening. I haven't seen it on sale in Australia yet, but if you want to know more about evolution it's well worth purchasing.

Good one Hell Girl, I found this extract of the book you mentioned at Richard Dawkins site... "Your Inner Fish" by Neil Shubin....
http://richarddawkins.net/article,21...sh,Neil-Shubin

Really interesting stuff, great explanation of why we get the hiccups and other nasty afflictions...I'm really getting in touch with my inner tadpole now!

[ozogg]

Onya "HellGirl" and "tteyes",

... for offering readings for us to pursue.
I don't have the SHUBIN book, but consider it in my hands in a few days!

_____
There are many books published both for and against "Evolution".

So how is the lay person to discern what is worthy ?

The religious merely ask for a recommendation from their friends at their local church. No open minds there.

Alas, we of a skeptical (or secular) bent are required to read both "for" and "against", lest we become as biased as our "opposition".

Here is a pro-evolution book with 16 essays written by eminent persons, but who write for the lay person and the public:
<Scientists Confront 'Intelligent Design and Creationism>,
Edited by Andrew PETTO and Laurie GODFREY,
W.W. NORTON & Co., NY, Y2007,
available via Amazon, $USD = 16.00

Here is a pro-ID book:
<The Design Revolution>,
William DEMBSKI,
InterVarsity Press, Ill., Y2204,
$USD = 35

If anyone is tempted, rather than deterred, from reading more of either faction, I have a VERY large modern (scientific mostly) library I can exploit to offer reading selections.

And of course, everyone can utilise Google in their quest for readings.

Cheers,
'im.

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Originally Posted by tteyes

Good one Hell Girl, I found this extract of the book you mentioned at Richard Dawkins site... "Your Inner Fish" by Neil Shubin....
http://richarddawkins.net/article,21...sh,Neil-Shubin

Really interesting stuff, great explanation of why we get the hiccups and other nasty afflictions...I'm really getting in touch with my inner tadpole now!