Knock Here For Jehovah's Witnesses - All-purpose JW thread.

[wolty]

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Wolty: i think there should be a case here. This is clearly a tort of breach of duty of care. The parents have failed to act upon them.

It is what I would have thought too croc.

Life threatening seems to me to be quite important. Weird beliefs just don't cut it as far as I am concerned. Pandering to that thinking means people die, not just in this instance but in fundamentalist thinking.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Originally Posted by Loki

What makes a child "more deserving" or "less deserving" of basic health care Croc?

What other "attitudes" held by parents would you use to deny innocent children basic health care?

Say there is one bed in the hospital. There are two children. Both children share their parents beliefs.

One set of parents believe the child must not have blood transfusions on the account of being a JW. The other parents want what is best for their child.

I say give the bed to the parents who want what is best for the child. I see it more relevant when the beds are full Loki. I am talking about prioritizing here, not just denying because we can.

[Loki]

Can't agree with you on that Croc.

I find the idea of discriminating for circumstances the individual has no control over unpleasant, regardless of context.

[DanDare]

I'm glad there is a way to override stupid parents on this.

Since 1993, state prosecutors have been allowed to petition courts on behalf of children whose parents' refusal to OK medical treatment will result in death. Raft said he's handled from 50 to 100 of these case in his 25 years practicing law.

Raft said that his office will only agree to go through this petition process if a child's death is indisputably "imminent" without treatment. Also, the requested procedure must be virtually guaranteed to work without devastating side effects.

"It has to be a very, very clear circumstance," he said.

Given the amount of difficulty that they have to go through I think this will bring about "Croc's Filter" when bed numbers are low without conscious selection being involved.

My preference though would be to say "you abandoned your child to death so now legally your child is dead to you. Go away. Someone else will care for this child from now on."

[ozeb]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...d-article.html

An official magazine for Jehovah's Witnesses that described those who leave the church as "mentally diseased" is at the centre of a police inquiry, it has emerged.

Detectives are investigating whether the article, published in July’s edition of The Watchtower, is in breach of Britain’s religious hatred laws.

[gruber]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-sinners.html

Two twisted Jehovah's Witnesses have been arrested as suspected serial killers, accused of murdering 13 people during a nine-month killing spree in Russia.
Claiming to be on a mission from God, Vladimir Gurianov, 44, and Elvira Egorycheva 46, hacked, shot and bludgeoned their victims in a case that left even hardened Russian detectives shocked.

fucking hell, they probably showed signs of being a danger yet noone did a bloody thing because they had a religion. Just another massacre to add to the brainwashing book clubs

[thinkngal]

Originally Posted by Twizzle

I've recently completed a unit on social psych, with a main focus on groups. I'd say this sort of behaviour in getting the kid along is definantly to re-enforce an 'us-vs-them' mentality. Creates a negative image of those outside of the group, and makes the 'in' group seem selfless, righteous and kind. Makes it significantly less likely for the kid to leave the group when they are older and they will have become warey of 'outsiders' after inevitably copping abuse and all that. Sort of a break em down and then build em back up thing: make em afraid/warey/negative towards the outsiders, then when they become older build em up again with an attitude of selflessness and righteousness. Actually, dorr-knocking is a pretty good stratagy to keep people within the church as it creates an us against the world sorta group, where members may feel that exclusion from or leaving the group would be ultimate doom.

No I havn't read the book, what's it about?

You've hit the nail on the head! As an ex jw I can vouch for them promoting an us and them mentality. People here seem just to want to slag them off but I know the power of a cult...it takes dissonance thinking to a whole different level. Having left 12 years ago and been brought up in it [yes I was one of those kids who went from door to door] it was an agonising process...you lose your family and friends and are adrift in a world you barely know. I feel sorry for most of the run of the mill people in it...they are not nutters... for the most part they are intelligent people. Read up on cults and how they work. They are insidious, heinous, and take over your life. if people believe in a god they are often drawn to cults as they feel mainstream religion has lost its way and cults offer what seems to be a good alternative. It's sad, and I lost over 30 years of my life to this cult that I can never get back.

[DanDare]

Originally Posted by thinkngal

It's sad, and I lost over 30 years of my life to this cult that I can never get back.

You didn't lose those years. The experience is part of your character. You grew during those years so don't feel too much regret.

[thinkngal]

Originally Posted by DanDare

You didn't lose those years. The experience is part of your character. You grew during those years so don't feel too much regret.

Yes that's true and I have done a lot since leaving ie getting my degree [frowned on by the jw cult] but it still rankles that I gave them that 30+years. We were programmed to think of the future 'new system' when we would live forever and have endless time to pursue things we wanted to...ha! what a joke and now I'm on the other side I can't believe I fell for it. But as I say nowadays, never underestimate a cult! Learing to think critically is now my main pursuit.

[thinkngal]

It's like this...to a jw or any cult member putting forward an argument that is perfectly logical to you will not penetrate them as they are programmed to filter anything that contradicts their believes. They self-censure any information not approved by the jws which means any outside literature or ideas that are different to their own. Try giving them some pamphlet of your own at the door..they will try to get out of taking it or if they do take it they will throw it away without reading it. You cannot logically debate with them - although they love that as in their minds it gives them a chance to prove you wrong from the bible - and quite possibly you would be put on their list to call back! If you are rude to them it deepens their conviction they have the truth. Really it does, so is very counter-productive. They are programmed to believe any opposition proves they have the truth. There is no way around it. They feel sorry for everyone not a jw...after all jws have the truth and will get through Armageddon - they are at your door because they want you to be saved too.
Honestly you cannot begin to understand a cults thinking until you've been in one..it defies all logical thinking or proof contrary to their beliefs.
I'm on a jw support group, I'll ask them if they have any different ideas and if so i'll post them here.