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  #1  
Old 27th February 2009, 10:07 PM
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Godless Ray Godless Ray is offline
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Default DNA and crime.

One last Hypothetical for the hell of it.

A murder happens in the vicinity of where you live (or rape or whatever)

The Police make an announcment they want everyone to submit to a DNA test to exclude them from investigation.

You know nothing else about what will happen to the DNA after, or if a non donation will result in a visit by stormtroopers.

If it happened, would you?

Godless Ray
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  #2  
Old 27th February 2009, 10:33 PM
His Noodly Appendage His Noodly Appendage is offline
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Default Re: DNA and crime.

If they have a warrant, sure. Otherwise, they can go whistle.

Exactly the same as if they wanted to search my home or subpoena my bank records. I have nothing to hide, but you do not let them exceed the limits of their powers.
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Old 28th February 2009, 12:33 PM
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Default Re: DNA and crime.

Yeah I agree, they need a warrant or some kind of legal document to state that we must in fact submit to a dna test.
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Old 28th February 2009, 01:08 PM
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Default Re: DNA and crime.

interesting fact, I know someone extremely well that coded a database system for storing dna (they take 13 sections of DNA in a sample in the database), and this persons code was used to store the results of 3 provinces in China that required all citizens to provide DNA samples.

The interesting fact about DNA, is they don't need your DNA to actually prove that you did something under the law. Contrary to popular belief, DNA evidence does not require and exact match to have the ability to be strong legal evidence. They can cut down 'reasonable doubt' quite easily with just a sample of the populations DNA.

They can tell family from DNA, and especially in small regions etc, they can tell race, etc etc this can identify the person if the family or race is identified, at least narrow the margins massively.

Just a point about DNA 'evidence' that a lot of people miss.
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Old 28th February 2009, 01:15 PM
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Default Re: DNA and crime.

Well I'm the opposite. I say why not. If it means in someway they can solve the crime quicker. I have nothing to hide. I am going to go one step further and argue that DNA information should be compulsory, either taken at birth or just made to go in and have it taken for us aged folk. Then, stored in a National database, and to even take the point another step, have DNA, amongst other information, stored on a National ID card, or at the very least passport. Then even when you go overseas, they have the information if they ever need it.
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Old 28th February 2009, 03:35 PM
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Default Re: DNA and crime.

Quote:
davo said View Post
Contrary to popular belief, DNA evidence does not require and exact match to have the ability to be strong legal evidence.
I belong to the school of 'if it helps and I've got nothing to hide, then why not'. Dad and his brothers were police officers and detectives and they would say public apathy and scare campaigns made their job so that more difficult. Not all law inforcement officers are corrupt and so often they have very little to go on without public help. I am saddened by the fact that some people are wronging accused but that shouldn't over shadow the tireless work done by our police to apprehend violent predators. In the news this week in Brissy a ring of pedophiles were caught grooming children through chat room sites. My thanks goes to the diligence of those officers and their dedication to protect the vulnerable and innocent. If I can help, I certainly would.

Anyway Davo, the DNA thing. I can't quite remember the exact percentage but in proving paternity cases the DNA match has to be around 90%(?) accurate. Is there a figure for legal cases? I'm surprised if anything lower would be acceptable.
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Old 28th February 2009, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: DNA and crime.

Quote:
Duffy said View Post
Anyway Davo, the DNA thing. I can't quite remember the exact percentage but in proving paternity cases the DNA match has to be around 90%(?) accurate. Is there a figure for legal cases? I'm surprised if anything lower would be acceptable.
Usually DNA evidence in a criminal case is presented, as is. There is no 'acceptable positive', it is up to the jury to decide reasonable doubt.

Depending on how it is presented to the jury, is the issue. I pointed out a video earlier of an oxford statistics professor that gave an example of how DNA evidence and statistics have been used before to wrongfully convict someone, and he also mentioned that there was plenty of cases of this. Was just pointing out, contrary to popular belief, DNA evidence is not a clear cut it was him/her situation, it is used in a variety of ways, and the common acceptance of the public is very much on the side that it is conclusive proof, which it is not, by itself. There is also different levels of DNA sampling. It's a complex thing DNA, not cut and dried.

Not saying it's not relevant, just saying that it's not infallible.
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Old 1st March 2009, 12:40 PM
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Default Re: DNA and crime.

Quote:
davo said View Post
Usually DNA evidence in a criminal case is presented, as is. There is no 'acceptable positive', it is up to the jury to decide reasonable doubt.
Oh dear, that's a minefield. And a bloody good argument against the death penalty.
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Old 2nd March 2009, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: DNA and crime.

Not a chance in hell I would do it.

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  #10  
Old 2nd March 2009, 10:24 PM
Seamus Seamus is offline
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Default Re: DNA and crime.

Quote:
Godless Ray said View Post
One last Hypothetical for the hell of it.

A murder happens in the vicinity of where you live (or rape or whatever)

The Police make an announcment they want everyone to submit to a DNA test to exclude them from investigation.

You know nothing else about what will happen to the DNA after, or if a non donation will result in a visit by stormtroopers.

If it happened, would you?

Godless Ray

In my country, "a visit by storm troopers is fairly unlikely" .I guess it must an American thing

Under no circumstances will I speak to police or give them anything without advice from my solicitor (the exceptions being my name and address ,required by law if requested)--and that most definitely includes "do you know how fast you were going?"---If not under arrest,I am NOT going to a police station.


My position is based on advice of my best mate ,who happens to be to be a prosecuting barrister.



The Youtube video link below,"Don't talk to cops" is made for America,but is pertinent for Australians; We also have the right to remain silent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

Last edited by Seamus; 2nd March 2009 at 10:27 PM.
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