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Old 3rd May 2017, 01:28 AM
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Default Was Jesus 98.8% Chimp?

A thought experiment question for the science guys and gals here:

Was Jesus (if he existed as a human ) 98.8% chimpanzee? Or would he be less than that because of the missing Y chromosome that wasn't delivered by God according to the immaculate conception story? The easy out for Christians would be that God miraculously zapped one into existence, but an artificial one would not make Jesus a human to my understanding as the Y chromosome needs genetic data.

I know that human beings do share 98.8% of their DNA with chimpanzees but does that mean we are no more 98.8% chimp anymore than the fact that we share around half our DNA with bananas means we are half banana?

Or are we actually 98.8% chimps because of the similar make up?
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Old 3rd May 2017, 04:43 AM
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Default Re: Was Jesus 98.8% Chimp?

Let's suppose that chimps were created by a separate god...we'll dub Him chimp-God...and He created chimps in His image. Let's further suppose that the primordial chimps also succumbed to original sin, offending poor chimp-God and naturally necessitating chimp-God send Himself down to the jungle to be sacrificed to Himself in the form of chimp-Jesus.

Would chimp-Jesus be 98.8% human? Think how offended the chimp clergy would be if asked that question...they would pant-hoot vigorously, hurling copious amounts of feces, indicating that chimp-Jesus was 100% chimp and simultaneously 100% chimp-God.

I think we can apply this same reasoning to man-Jesus.
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Old 3rd May 2017, 07:33 AM
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Default Re: Was Jesus 98.8% Chimp?

It's not just the Y chromosome that comes from Daddy you know...Daddy Jehovah would have had to have made up 50% of Sonny's DNA so we're talking only 49.4% DNA in common with chimps. Which I think proves that Jesus was basically a talking banana.
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Old 3rd May 2017, 07:55 AM
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Default Re: Was Jesus 98.8% Chimp?

Batman could beat up Superman, given a Kryptonite baseball-bat...

Ockham's Fecking Great Chainsaw says 100% human DNA, one of the contributors being a stealth-rooter, and the other an embarrassed Jewish girl who needed a good backstory.
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Old 3rd May 2017, 09:33 AM
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Default Re: Was Jesus 98.8% Chimp?

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virphen said View Post
It's not just the Y chromosome that comes from Daddy you know...Daddy Jehovah would have had to have made up 50% of Sonny's DNA so we're talking only 49.4% DNA in common with chimps. Which I think proves that Jesus was basically a talking banana.
Lol! Sorry for being thick, but where did the 49.4% arise Virphen?

I've spoken to Christian friends about this sort of thing recently and wanted to point out that it is obvious that we have evolved from apes, as is evident from the high percentage of common DNA. I think chimps and bonobos have the highest percentages. Their answer straight off the bat was that it was easy for God to provide the DNA including the Y Chromosome by performing a miracle.

They countered with just because we share 50% of our DNA with bananas, it doesn't follow that WE are 50% bananas.

My weak argument is that because it was magically provided, Jesus would not be the same as us, even chimps would more similar to us. Is there a better way of arguing this?
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Old 3rd May 2017, 09:39 AM
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Default Re: Was Jesus 98.8% Chimp?

If magic enters the picture, then anything is possible, including Yahweh conjuring up DNA to give his "enhanced fetus to treat us" that is indistinguishable from the result of a natural conception.
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Old 3rd May 2017, 09:45 AM
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Default Re: Was Jesus 98.8% Chimp?

Chimp or human [or Bonobo] Jesus would have been a lassie. No Y chromosome. Yes, Jesus would have to have been named Jessica or summat. Because virgin birth means parthenogenesis, so Jessica's DNA would be 100% from the Virgin mummy. Problem is, human genomes [and apes and mammals generally] are not set up for parthenogenesis.

A lot of lizards can do it pretty easily, which ties in nicely with the idea of reptilian overlords. Of course, as soon as you start mixing woo/magic with reality, one comes up with some bizarre ideas.

Of course, the story is flop-doddle on so many levels, including Mary having to explain the reason for her expanding tummy to disapproving rellies.
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Old 3rd May 2017, 10:06 AM
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Default Re: Was Jesus 98.8% Chimp?

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SEG said View Post
Quote:
virphen said View Post
It's not just the Y chromosome that comes from Daddy you know...Daddy Jehovah would have had to have made up 50% of Sonny's DNA so we're talking only 49.4% DNA in common with chimps. Which I think proves that Jesus was basically a talking banana.
Lol! Sorry for being thick, but where did the 49.4% arise Virphen?

I've spoken to Christian friends about this sort of thing recently and wanted to point out that it is obvious that we have evolved from apes, as is evident from the high percentage of common DNA. I think chimps and bonobos have the highest percentages. Their answer straight off the bat was that it was easy for God to provide the DNA including the Y Chromosome by performing a miracle.

They countered with just because we share 50% of our DNA with bananas, it doesn't follow that WE are 50% bananas.

My weak argument is that because it was magically provided, Jesus would not be the same as us, even chimps would more similar to us. Is there a better way of arguing this?
98.8/2=49.4 If Jesus got half of his DNA from his mother, a full human, that would be 49.4% of his DNA that is common with chimps, 0.6% human and non chimp and 50% divine.

This is all totally facetious of course. If I were to respond more seriously, it is to point out that % of DNA comparisons are a very complicated matter. We have more than one genome, for a start (our main cell DNA, mitochondrial DNA that only is inherited from our mothers, and I think there is a separate DNA again for our white blood cells? - there are also the various microorganisms we couldn't live without that we inherit from our mothers as more of an infection than an inheritance, if you follow). Statistics on DNA are, afaik, different based on what gene or group of genes you examine, so we get slightly different results depending on what basis these comparisons are made. There is also the consideration that as there are only 4 letters in the code, we are bound to have almost exactly 25% of our actual string of letters in common with every single other DNA based organism before we start any other kind of comparison - so maybe we're really only 1/3 banana.

Overall though I don't think any of this is an argument against the biblical idea that jesus was half-man-half-god-fully-man-fully-god-fully-holy-ghost mystical-incomprehensibly-mixed - because the idea is totally incoherent to start with, so there is no imaginable evidence that could falsify it, because god = magic. However if it is a discussion for the power of genetic evidence to our modelling of our evolutionary history, I would refer people to some of the works by people like Dawkins, Coyne or Zimmer that present the evidence for evolution.
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Old 3rd May 2017, 10:12 AM
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Default Re: Was Jesus 98.8% Chimp?

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SEG said View Post
My weak argument is that because it was magically provided, Jesus would not be the same as us, even chimps would more similar to us. Is there a better way of arguing this?


A miracle can only be posited if miracles happen, why should all miracles that we know of happen in the unattainable past so that they can't be checked by people with proper training and equipment? Maybe because they don't actually happen, if they want to claim miracle (literally the impossible) they need to demonstrate miracle first.


Before you can accept the miracle argument they would need to provide evidence that miracles actually happen and aren't just literary events used in many fantasy books from the Bhagavad Gita to Harry Potter. Their argument can be dismissed simply on the grounds that miracles don't happen, or they would still be happening.
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Old 3rd May 2017, 10:17 AM
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Default Re: Was Jesus 98.8% Chimp?

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...anymore than the fact that we share around half our DNA with bananas means we are half banana?
Speak for yourself. I'm at least half banana.

Of course a fundie Xtian would say that God made all Y chromosomes. Therefore if he made a special one for Jesus then it wouldn't be any more artificial than all the other Y chromosomes.

The physical body of Jesus was the same as yours or mine. Therefore sharing 98.8% of His DNA with a chimpanzee. It was the supernatural component of Jesus that was divine.

We all have a supernatural component (according to believers). I have a soul that, if it exists, is going straight to hell for some of the jokes I've made at God's expense over the years. What made Jesus different from you and I is that Jesus' supernatural component was God Himself.

Last edited by 142857; 3rd May 2017 at 10:19 AM.
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