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  #11  
Old 8th March 2017, 09:20 PM
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Default Re: B Grade Westerns - cultural imperialism.

My 12 year old daughter makes me listen to modern pop when we drive. Some of its ok. Like Lucas Graham's '7 years', a beautiful song in the tradition of western narrative and melody and there are lots of others that i dont know the name of but they're good songs, they just sound different...kind of digital or something but still.

In regard to the OP and cowboys and the 50s and early 60s. I was born in 68 and had a cowboy thing in me pre-teen years and then i heard this cowboy singing and absolutely everything changed for me...clip from 1963...

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  #12  
Old 8th March 2017, 09:37 PM
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Default Re: B Grade Westerns - cultural imperialism.

This raises some serious questions, the first of which is obviously WTF?

Quote:
This AI-written pop song is almost certainly a dire warning for humanity
Let's not rule it out, anyway



Artificial intelligence has already been used to create a short film, snippets of angst-ridden poetry, and even the odd avant-garde melody. But the YouTube video above might just be the first pop song written by AI — and it's almost certainly (probably) a dire warning for humanity.

The song in question was created by researchers at Sony, who used the company’s Flow Machines software to analyze a database of some 13,000 lead sheets (basic scores that record the melody and harmony of tracks) from different genres around the world. The software writes its own melodies, and a human composer, Benoît Carré, was drafted to turn material into a fully produced track. He simply inputted a desired style of music (in this case The Beatles) and got to work.

The lingering question, though, is what the hell is "Daddy’s Car" actually about? Although the lyrics were written by Carré rather than the software, it’s impossible not to detect the menacing threats of machine intelligence in the wording, presumably working through Carré like a sinister puppet master. Here's my interpretation of the lyrics:
  • "In daddy’s car, it sounds so good / like something new, it turns me on"


The rise of AI is putting us all, metaphorically, in the back seat of "daddy’s car" — a paternalistic system that guides our lives, and that over which we have no control. The siren song we're listening to is the "something new" of consumer tech, which offers machine learning-powered experiences that turn both us and our soon-to-be robot overlords "on."...

continues...
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Last edited by THWOTH; 8th March 2017 at 09:39 PM.
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  #13  
Old 8th March 2017, 09:51 PM
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Default Re: B Grade Westerns - cultural imperialism.

That song is not so far removed from some late beatles stuff, imo. (i'll be slayed for saying that, i know). Well, this threads pretty weird, cowboy fascists to modern music to early dylan to AI composition! Where do we go from here...?

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  #14  
Old 8th March 2017, 10:02 PM
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Default Re: B Grade Westerns - cultural imperialism.

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  #15  
Old 9th March 2017, 03:30 PM
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Default Re: B Grade Westerns - cultural imperialism.

My son turned me on to Opeth trying to help me get my head out of my arse. He has a keen ear and got into techno of all genres, rap. Amazing. Needs to be played loud through a fine system. Why hadn't I heard Opeth anywhere on the radio?

Music that makes sense is algorithmic. There are natural, deterministic relationships in harmony, which the human ear and brains of all kinds identify as aesthetic. The notes firstly have to be in tune with each other. The piano has tempered tuning to achieve this. Chord and harmony relationships constitutes theory. John Lennon wrote heaps of pentatonic tunes. But he also wrote Julia, Because and such, demonstrating a deep education in theory, listening to, studying the old stuff. Same with George and Paul. They loved old time music. It's where you learn. It is foundational. Then you can make new stuff and jazz.

Daddy's Car just sounds synthetic, altogether devoid of soul. In Hair, written between 1964 and 1968, there is the striking line, 'cybernetic Indians.' How prescient. Should we be optimistic about this image of a brave new world?

I have started reading Homo Deus, a Brief History of Tomorrow, Yuval Noah Harari, 2015. Harari teaches world history at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Amazing read, as is his bestseller Sapiens, a Brief History of Humankind. I scored Homo Deus for $23, the Book Depository. Lots of pictures. Interestingly, and wadaye, don't let it put you off, Harari dedicates Homo Deus 'to my teacher S.N. Goenka (1924-2013) who lovingly taught me many things.' Harari discusses the pursuit of happiness and pleasure, Epicurus, Buddha etc. (I read many pages of The Goenka Vipassana Cult thread.)

The wealthy will be able to access immortality, bioengineering, cyborg engineering. Daddy's Car will be deemed beautiful.

I started too many themes in the OP, methinks. How to synthesise it.

The Western pictures ignored the Native Americans and African Americans. The cowboy songsters and Western bands like Sons of the Pioneers and great Western Swing 10-piece Bob Wills and His Texas Playboys though that band was refreshingily irreverent and adult, whose collective output and popularity was huge, had no blacks in their lineups or its consumers. Bob Will's outfit freely borrowed from the blues as did the wonderful Jimmy Rogers, the yodelling breakman.

The Jewish musos mixed with the black musos in swing and jazz bands, New York etc. They too weren't included in the ridiculous cowboy myth of what is America. And if it weren't for the beautiful horse there would be no such myth.

Bob Dylan wrote Only a Pawn In Their Game and The Ballad of Hollis Brown in the segregation protest era of the 60's but I don't know how many black guys he has had behind him over his long career. None? The Paul Butterfied Blues Band of Chicago had two in the 60's. The other guys were Jewish.

The British gave us self lampooning, going back to the Middle Ages, Chaucer, music hall, The Goons, Monty Python, Peter Sellers, Rowan Atkinson, Spinal Tap, Black Books. You couldn't call that cultural imperialism. We in Australia have been getting British comedy from the beginning of radio and TV. I don't think America generally knows about it.

Mel Brooks gave us Get Smart. America has given us much in scholarship and technology. Also Donald Trump and his cadre.
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Last edited by Strato; 9th March 2017 at 03:34 PM.
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  #16  
Old 10th March 2017, 05:27 PM
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Default Re: B Grade Westerns - cultural imperialism.

I guess the thread deserves to die.

This Trump thing occupies my mind a lot. Half of America voted for him, nearly.

Reading the Wiki article, Minstrel Show of the C19th, a huge influence on society's characterisation of African Americans, I think this is still deeply pervasive.

'Minstrel shows lampooned black people as dim-witted, lazy, buffoonish, superstitious and happy-go-lucky.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show

Vaudeville was sanitized and censored. Burlesque was around, however.

Of all those straight TV shows in the 60's,there was The Smothers Brothers, competing for its time slot against Bonanza. The show's satire was ever controversial and CBS pulled it.

'1960s in television
Quote:
The most prominent American TV series of the 1960s include: The Ed Sullivan Show, Star Trek, Peyton Place, The Twilight Zone, The Outer Limits, The Andy Williams Show, The Dean Martin Show, The Wonderful World of Disney, Alfred Hitchcock Presents, The Beverly Hillbillies, Bonanza, Batman, McHale's Navy, Laugh-In, The Dick Van Dyke Show, The Fugitive, The Tonight Show, Gunsmoke, The Andy Griffith Show, Gilligan's Island, Mission: Impossible, The Flintstones, The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet, Lassie, The Danny Thomas Show, The Lucy Show, My Three Sons, The Red Skelton Show, Bewitched and I Dream of Jeannie. The Flintstones was a favoured show, receiving 40 million views an episode with an average of 3 views a day.
This bit,

Quote:
Some programming such as The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour became controversial by challenging the foundations of America's corporate and governmental controls; making fun of world leaders, and questioning U.S. involvement in and escalation of the Vietnam War.
CBS abruptly pulled the show.

My point is that if something like The Smothers Brothers was done today on some big mainstream channel, Trump voters wouldn't tolerate it if they happened to see it nor would the powers that be. Alec Baldwin and the crew are brilliantly satirising Trump on NBC's Saturday Night Live but it's not The Smothers Brothers.

Trump got into the White House on the manic boast and falsehood that he could bring back the jobs and that he would pursue a nationalist, nativist agenda.

He could just as easily have won on the campaign slogan Make America Straight Again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960s
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Last edited by Strato; 10th March 2017 at 05:30 PM.
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  #17  
Old 10th March 2017, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: B Grade Westerns - cultural imperialism.

Quote:
Strato said View Post
I guess the thread deserves to die.

This Trump thing occupies my mind a lot. Half of America voted for him, nearly.
What are you talking about? This is a great thread, chaotic trawl through popular culture and music, this is my favorite at the moment.

Quote:
Reading the Wiki article, Minstrel Show of the C19th, a huge influence on society's characterisation of African Americans, I think this is still deeply pervasive.

'Minstrel shows lampooned black people as dim-witted, lazy, buffoonish, superstitious and happy-go-lucky.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show

Vaudeville was sanitized and censored. Burlesque was around, however.

Of all those straight TV shows in the 60's,there was The Smothers Brothers, competing for its time slot against Bonanza. The show's satire was ever controversial...
My point is that if something like The Smothers Brothers was done today on some big mainstream channel, Trump voters wouldn't tolerate it if they happened to see it nor would the powers that be. Alec Baldwin and the crew are brilliantly satirising Trump on NBC's Saturday Night Live but it's not The Smothers Brothers.
i've never seen the smothers brothers but SNL's satire of this administration is great and that's something! Also, Bill Maher ever week and John Oliver and a dozen fantastic podcasts and i bet there's so much stuff out there that i havent heard of yet and imagine the music that is being composed as we speak!

Dont forget, the 'straight' tv shows of the 60s would generate public outrage if their ilk were to be aired today. Things have drastically improved.

Quote:
Trump got into the White House on the manic boast and falsehood that he could bring back the jobs and that he would pursue a nationalist, nativist agenda.

He could just as easily have won on the campaign slogan Make America Straight Again.
Oh...fuck Trump, the whole things a scam, if he doesnt destroy the world the future of history will recognise his villainy.
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  #18  
Old 10th March 2017, 09:35 PM
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Default Re: B Grade Westerns - cultural imperialism.

The historical Resistance flourishes and will be stronger for the Trump.

Too much ground has been taken for rights and freedoms, in articulating the Constitution since its framing.

Trump will be impeached. He should be divested of his wealth also however.
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  #19  
Old 10th March 2017, 11:19 PM
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Default Re: B Grade Westerns - cultural imperialism.

Frontier mentality: that which we cannot acquire by peaceful means we will acquire by any means.

High Noon (2017); Trump casts himself as Marshal Will Kane and the corporate and political elites as the Miller Gang. However, in this modern remake of the 1952 classic it quickly transpires that Kane has been playing a double hand and has actually been a member of the Miller Gang all along, using the threat that the Kane Gang pose, and the authority of his marshal's badge, as a cover for fleecing the good, honest folk of Hadleyville - now duly paralysed into inaction by a state of perpetual fear.

Contrary to Kane's entreaties, Frank Miller is not returning to town to enact his revenge on Kane but to plunder it and take the loot across the Mexican border. Kane arrives on the noon train, and the townsfolk pile their valuables in the street at Kane's behest. Together Kane and the Miller Gang extort as much of the towns wealth as they can load on to wagons, tracking down those who refuse to give up their goods, like Judge Mettrick and retired lawman Marshal Howe, leaving many dead, and dying. Many of the townsfolk are huminilated by the gang, being made to dance, strip, or perform bizarre sexual acts (such as pissing on former Marshal Howe's bed) before being shot in the face by their tormentors. After this the Gang are obviously in high spirits, intoxicated as much by the size of their haul and the power they have over the town as by the cheap hooch raided from the saloon, but before leaving town an argument breaks out among them about the division of the booty, with Kane demanding a larger share for 'softening up' the town so that Miller and his boys could maximise their profit with the minimum of resistance. This argument soon turns nasty, resulting in a prolonged gunfight--in which several members of the gang switch sides only to switch sides again--and which ultimate results in Hadleyville being raised to the ground. As the film draws to it's inevitable close the camera pulls back to reveal a rag-bag handful of shattered survivors staggering away from the burning town across the parched Arizona landscape - the final scene being a slow motion depiction of a galloping horse with it's mane on fire.
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  #20  
Old 11th March 2017, 12:02 AM
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Default Re: B Grade Westerns - cultural imperialism.

Jesus THWOTH, is there a contemporary Zane Grey?

You could haul like Wells Fargo stagecoach trunk loads of loot riding and raiding the fixated American psyche with those riveting, inspiring fictions.

Zane Grey could sit on the curb of a bustling city and churn out Western thematic crap on a typewriter.

Australia had Ion Idriess, but he was no Henry Lawson.
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