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  #11  
Old 29th December 2016, 08:43 PM
stevebrooks stevebrooks is online now
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Default Re: Is Athiesm A Science Or A Belief

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EbonyBreeCaple said View Post
I assume your either going to tell me religion is taught to us or that athiesm is natural. Or heaven forbid you were forced to be an athiest?

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This is a bit samey, heard it hundreds of times. Being atheist is no more a choice than being theist.

In your OP you said;

Quote:
with no actual evidence (other than hallucinating the hue of a red face that answered "God" when I asked who it was) in a higher power, an energy, a creator
So when did you choose to believe in god? You see that's how it works, you can't answer that question because it wasn't a choice, the belief or non-belief in a god is a purely involuntary reaction to the influences in our lives. The primary influence in our lives is our parents, they believe and inculcate that belief into us, therefore we, or most of us, believe.

Yes we are taught to believe in god, we are taught to follow a religion, failing any education into the existence of god, parents and a school system hat never mentioned god, no preachers standing on the street corner telling us we are going to hell, no religious wars or manifestly invented claims of a war on Christmas none of us would believe in god because none of us would even know such a concept existed. It wouldn't occur to us to suddenly start believing in something for which there is no evidence.

Once we get old enough to start questioning the myths and falsehoods taught to us by our parents and schools, the religion embedded in our society, some of us start questioning and looking for answers, and that search quite often involves, with no intention on our part, in the loss of belief in a god or gods. In other words it's not a choice we made but the end result of a process of questioning, it just happens.
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  #12  
Old 29th December 2016, 08:43 PM
EbonyBreeCaple EbonyBreeCaple is offline
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Default Re: Is Athiesm A Science Or A Belief

Whoops. I meant atheist not asthiest. Ive written athist in my phone so many times it automatically comes out. First thing ive learned here. ATHEIST.

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  #13  
Old 29th December 2016, 08:49 PM
EbonyBreeCaple EbonyBreeCaple is offline
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Default Re: Is Athiesm A Science Or A Belief

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stevebrooks said View Post
This is a bit samey, heard it hundreds of times. Being atheist is no more a choice than being theist.

In your OP you said;



So when did you choose to believe in god? You see that's how it works, you can't answer that question because it wasn't a choice, the belief or non-belief in a god is a purely involuntary reaction to the influences in our lives. The primary influence in our lives is our parents, they believe and inculcate that belief into us, therefore we, or most of us, believe.

Yes we are taught to believe in god, we are taught to follow a religion, failing any education into the existence of god, parents and a school system hat never mentioned god, no preachers standing on the street corner telling us we are going to hell, no religious wars or manifestly invented claims of a war on Christmas none of us would believe in god because none of us would even know such a concept existed. It wouldn't occur to us to suddenly start believing in something for which there is no evidence.

Once we get old enough to start questioning the myths and falsehoods taught to us by our parents and schools, the religion embedded in our society, some of us start questioning and looking for answers, and that search quite often involves, with no intention on our part, in the loss of belief in a god or gods. In other words it's not a choice we made but the end result of a process of questioning, it just happens.
I do believe I choose to believe because I have questioned existence of god or gods and used to argue avidly with people that there was no god and that it was a man made construct. Ive had spiritual experiences within certain sects that gave me hope. Being atheist did not give me hope. I was bitter. I choose to believe in a higher power. I choose hope. I choose blind faith.

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  #14  
Old 29th December 2016, 08:50 PM
stevebrooks stevebrooks is online now
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Default Re: Is Athiesm A Science Or A Belief

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EbonyBreeCaple said View Post
Pardon me. Athiest. Obviously I am not familiar athiesm therefore my question. To answer your question without assuming, I thought it was a choice just as I choose to believe in God. I have no evidence of Gods existing other than historical references from nearly every culture on earth. You have no evidence that Gods do not exist other than lack of quantifiable physical evidence. I chose to believe. You chose not to believe. Thats my reasoning. Feel free to educate me. Im not looking to aggravate or debate. Im hoping to learn something.

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ATHEIST! ATHEISM! <- I see you have corrected that, please ignore, for now.

No I suspect you didn't choose to believe in a god. Lets try an experiment, just stop believing in god for a few weeks. If, as you say it's a choice, like veganism for instance, you should be able to just stop believing, then start again a few weeks later, no harm done. But your reasoning is faulty as explained in my previous post. You can demonstrate us all wrong by just stopping believing. If you can't stop believing, then it's not a choice!

Keep in mind I don't care what argument you present. Fear of angering god, lack of desire to do so, you'll turn into a raving maniac who goes around murdering, raping and killing if you stop believing (and before you jump up and down yes that argument has been used in my presence), if you can't just stop believing, for any reason, then you are wrong.
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Last edited by stevebrooks; 29th December 2016 at 08:51 PM.
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  #15  
Old 29th December 2016, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: Is Athiesm A Science Or A Belief

Despite me stating that you're spelling atheist/atheism incorrectly, you persist with your misspelling?

If you're hoping to learn something, you might need to comprehend what people are saying!
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  #16  
Old 29th December 2016, 08:55 PM
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Default Re: Is Athiesm A Science Or A Belief

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EbonyBreeCaple said View Post
Do you choose to be an athiest simply because you do not believe in a God or Gods or is it a belief based on scientific theory?
The term "believe" has a fixed connotation. It doesn't apply to the position one can arrive at or have of merely lacking belief. Belief considers evidence superfluous or even subversive.

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My brother considers himself an athiest due to his beliefs in science. But I read in other areas that some people simply don't believe in God or Gods which Im taken to understand is the official definition of athiesm.
There really is no orthodoxy on this. Of course we recognise a raft of logical fallacies, bestowed as a legacy from millennia of scholarship and reasoning.

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As much as I am not religious I believe, with no actual evidence (other than hallucinating the hue of a red face that answered "God" when I asked who it was) in a higher power, an energy, a creator.
I would suggest you subject this subjective experience to critical thinking and psycho-education.

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I understand science presents evidence to support theories and as such as there is no evidence of a God or Gods existence an Athiest would therefore conclude that God does not exist.
That is sound enough from here. 'Atheist' doesn't come with a capital 'a' as Christianity or Christian is for some reason still capitalised.

Science is on a sounder footing when theories are subjected to the endeavour to falsify them if possible. If it can't be done and they are only ever verified they are tentatively endorsed and technology can arise from the new knowledge.

There are others here quite masterful at explaining epistemology. It is a very important subject, essential to this.

Quote:
Is there a science to disprove a God or Gods existence or is this basically a belief due to lack of evidence?
It's an old axiom: you can't prove a negative. Lack of evidence, yes. Belief, no. One is always open to new evidence. Don't hold your breath or make false assumptions. There is no call to propose a god.

For mine, everything admits of a naturalistic explanation.

Quote:
I'm not criticizing athiesm. I believe everyone is entitled to follow a discipline in so much that that discipline is healthy and does not seek to harm others. Just asking a question to hopefully learn something from individuals who claim athiesm.
Religion is deleterious. It is not innocuous. Scepticism is healthy. Education is transformative.
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  #17  
Old 29th December 2016, 08:55 PM
EbonyBreeCaple EbonyBreeCaple is offline
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Default Re: Is Athiesm A Science Or A Belief

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stevebrooks said View Post
ATHEIST! ATHEISM! <- I see you have corrected that, please ignore, for now.

No I suspect you didn't choose to believe in a god. Lets try an experiment, just stop believing in god for a few weeks. If, as you say it's a choice, like veganism for instance, you should be able to just stop believing, then start again a few weeks later, no harm done. But your reasoning is faulty as explained in my previous post. You can demonstrate us all wrong by just stopping believing. If you can't stop believing, then it's not a choice!

Keep in mind I don't care what argument you present. Fear of angering god, lack of desire to do so, you'll turn into a raving maniac who goes around murdering, raping and killing if you stop believing (and before you jump up and down yes that argument has been used in my presence), if you can't just stop believing, for any reason, then you are wrong.
For sure I could put my belief down at the drop of a hat. Im not religious. I explore religion. I find it beautiful. Its many and varied forms. But if I cant believe in god just to have a pleasant conversation, fine, lets say I dont believe in god. Seriously. I mean, no religion would have me cos I wanna believe in all religions. So if for the purpose of this to sink in to me im happy for the time being to not believe in god. I feel no different other than this sadness at the cruelty of mankind and that there is nothing to hope for as man is vain and does not value his fellow man. Im bitter. I have a sense of hopelessness which i could try to fill with material things but am financially and physically unable to do as i am welfare dependant and disabled.

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  #18  
Old 29th December 2016, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: Is Athiesm A Science Or A Belief

That's not belief. That's pretense.
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  #19  
Old 29th December 2016, 09:01 PM
EbonyBreeCaple EbonyBreeCaple is offline
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Default Re: Is Athiesm A Science Or A Belief

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Strato said View Post
The term "believe" has a fixed connotation. It doesn't apply to the position one can arrive at or have of merely lacking belief. Belief considers evidence superfluous or even subversive.



There really is no orthodoxy on this. Of course we recognise a raft of logical fallacies, bestowed as a legacy from millennia of scholarship and reasoning.



I would suggest you subject this subjective experience to critical thinking and psycho-education.



That is sound enough from here. 'Atheist' doesn't come with a capital 'a' as Christianity or Christian is for some reason still capitalised.

Science is on a sounder footing when theories are subjected to the endeavour to falsify them if possible. If it can't be done and they are only ever verified they are tentatively endorsed and technology can arise from the new knowledge.

There are others here quite masterful at explaining epistemology. It is a very important subject, essential to this.



It's an old axiom: you can't prove a negative. Lack of evidence, yes. Belief, no. One is always open to new evidence. Don't hold your breath or make false assumptions. There is no call to propose a god.

For mine, everything admits of a naturalistic explanation.



Religion is deleterious. It is not innocuous. Scepticism is healthy. Education is transformative.
I like your reply. Its indepth. I also have some googling to do on some of the terms you used. Im coming to terms with this constant reference to atheism not being a choice but a description. If thats the take on it I can only accept that as it is coming from people who adhere to the title.

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  #20  
Old 29th December 2016, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: Is Athiesm A Science Or A Belief

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EbonyBreeCaple said View Post
I choose blind faith.
At least you are honest about the position you hold.

For the record I'm both an atheist - I lack belief in deities because I've seen no evidence on which to base such a belief

and I'm also an apistevist - I don't do faith.
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