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  #21  
Old 27th December 2016, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: How to defeat terrorists? True extremism.

Thanks for the links regarding Muslims condemning terrorism.

As Spearthrower says, there really shouldn't be an obligation for Muslims to apologise for or disavow acts of terrorism they had nothing to do with. That so many choose to do so anyway speaks volumes.

I know how annoying it is when people try to pin atrocities committed by people they think are atheists (Stalin, Hitler and so on) on all atheists. I imagine being a Muslim would be similar.

Last edited by 142857; 27th December 2016 at 08:29 PM.
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  #22  
Old 27th December 2016, 08:55 PM
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Default Re: How to defeat terrorists? True extremism.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali argues in Heretic, that leading clerics from Al Azhar and Saudi Arabia could do a lot to fight Islamist theology by simply making jihad harram...but they dont! The narrative of so many outspoken anti terrorist Muslim's seems to hinge on simply denying that groups like Isis are actually Muslims. Sure, its a good and positive thing that such groups are condemned but surely the point is being missed. Isis are Islamic. They really fucking believe in Islam, they justify their jihad through the koran. They are muslims. Denying that is just a no true scotsman statement, in my opinion.
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What are your views on how to counter religious terrorism? I know that's a tough question with lots of variables. I used to think, just monitor all suspicious activity and lock up all the bad guys, but that doesn't get to the root of the problem. Community intervention seems to be a good idea, though I don't agree with having MORE religious discussion with Muslim youth groups.
Monitor and catch the bad guys is a good thing. Demonising Muslims is extremely counterproductive, imo, and most definitely so in Australia where i'd suggest the vast majority of our small Muslim population are more interested in buying a new car and getting enough money together for a mortgage.

However, Islam is a load of fucking bullshit. From a rational skeptic viewpoint Islam should be attacked at every opportunity but it's really difficult because the pointy end of most attacks on Islam is made up of bigotry and Christianity. Any rational deconstruction of Islam seems to get merged into the dickwad xtian right neo-nazis conservative narrative which in the end manifests itself in an attack on Muslims so the attack is itself irrational and we end up with a bizarre violent orgy of mass stupidity. It makes you just not want to be involved in the discussion at all.

Personally, i spend more time now defending Muslim's than i do pointing out how fucked Islam is even though i think i generally have a better understanding of the absurdities of that religion than the people who hate Muslims.

As for some long term reformation of Islam, it obviously needs to be an internal project and i havent the foggiest how that could happen so long as the book is not more widely historicized, especially in the heartland, where such an act is punishable by imprisonment, death or mob retribution. I guess it all just takes time. Things were pretty grim during the inquisition too.

But i firmly believe the solution is through reason, not more religion.

Sorry for the rant
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  #23  
Old 27th December 2016, 09:35 PM
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Default Re: How to defeat terrorists? True extremism.

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Goldenmane said View Post
Here's the one I was looking for.

http://www.teenvogue.com/story/teen-...cing-terrorism

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Ok GM, that's convincing to me as well as those other links you provided that there is condemnation of terrorist attacks. So why aren't they condemning terrorists as cowards universally in the mosques?

How can they go to their deaths thinking that they are being thought of as heros in their local mosques if they are being denounced?
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  #24  
Old 27th December 2016, 11:59 PM
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Default Re: How to defeat terrorists? True extremism.

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142857 said View Post
As Spearthrower says, there really shouldn't be an obligation for Muslims to apologise for or disavow acts of terrorism they had nothing to do with. That so many choose to do so anyway speaks volumes.
This video makes me think of religion.


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  #25  
Old 28th December 2016, 12:01 AM
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Default Re: How to defeat terrorists? True extremism.

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So why aren't they condemning terrorists as cowards universally in the mosques?
1) I expect that many are, but not personally going to any mosques, I wouldn't know for sure. How many mosques do you attend regularly?

2) Some mosques would be supporting certain elements of what we would call terrorism.

3) Why should they? Should all Christian Church services be about apologizing for the iniquities of some tiny percentage of Christians elsewhere?
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  #26  
Old 28th December 2016, 01:15 AM
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Default Re: How to defeat terrorists? True extremism.

Quote:
SEG said View Post
Quote:
Goldenmane said View Post
Here's the one I was looking for.

http://www.teenvogue.com/story/teen-...cing-terrorism

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Ok GM, that's convincing to me as well as those other links you provided that there is condemnation of terrorist attacks. So why aren't they condemning terrorists as cowards universally in the mosques?

How can they go to their deaths thinking that they are being thought of as heros in their local mosques if they are being denounced?
You make the claim that they aren't condemning this shit in Friday mosque, without support, and request that I explain it.

I don't attend their mosques, son. I don't know what they're preaching.

And neither do you.

There's only one of us making unsupported claims about Muslims, lad. And it fucking isn't me.



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  #27  
Old 28th December 2016, 07:07 AM
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Default Re: How to defeat terrorists? True extremism.

Quote:
Goldenmane said View Post
You make the claim that they aren't condemning this shit in Friday mosque, without support, and request that I explain it.

I don't attend their mosques, son. I don't know what they're preaching.

And neither do you.

There's only one of us making unsupported claims about Muslims, lad. And it fucking isn't me.



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They were rhetorical fucking questions, Dad! Sheesh! I'm trying to figure out how to take away the aggrandizement and the hero worship aspect of the suicide bombers. Maybe it is just a matter of time as it has already been pointed out here.
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  #28  
Old 28th December 2016, 08:47 AM
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Default Re: How to defeat terrorists? True extremism.

Aren't religious fundamentalists just really good at their religion?

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Atheist: n; A person to be pitied in that he is unable to believe things for which there is no evidence, and who has thus deprived himself of a convenient means of feeling superior to others.
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  #29  
Old 28th December 2016, 08:50 AM
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Default Re: How to defeat terrorists? True extremism.

Not that I have read the article but reading the comments I am reminded of this.



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The Nizkor Project- Logical Fallacies

Atheist: n; A person to be pitied in that he is unable to believe things for which there is no evidence, and who has thus deprived himself of a convenient means of feeling superior to others.
—Chaz Bufe, The American Heretic’s Dictionary
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  #30  
Old 28th December 2016, 10:01 AM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: How to defeat terrorists? True extremism.

The notion that muslims generally support the violence of sharia law is probably more a western idea. In iran at public executions the crowds say the last religious duties for the victim who is unable to say them him or herself. This is a very subversive act
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