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  #11  
Old 27th December 2016, 12:14 PM
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Default Re: How to defeat terrorists? True extremism.

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pipbarber said View Post
Yeah...that's a load of bullshit. Religion may not be the only cause but it sure as fuck is the main one.

...This is a heated issue but the claim that Islamic violence is caused by Islam doesnt actually strike me as much of a stretch really. But i guess if youre religious, you'll defend religion to the end of reason.
Thanks very much Pipbarber, I agree. I just downloaded all those MP3s from Sam Harris to listen to in my car. I actually went to Harris as a source (as I am a fan of his) and found his views on Islam and terrorists rubbished on Rational Wiki: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Sam_Harris

What are your views on how to counter religious terrorism? I know that's a tough question with lots of variables. I used to think, just monitor all suspicious activity and lock up all the bad guys, but that doesn't get to the root of the problem. Community intervention seems to be a good idea, though I don't agree with having MORE religious discussion with Muslim youth groups. I think the Christian guy just wants more proselytising opportunities. He's not an actual friend, btw, he is a member of another forum I belong to based in the US. I think he is a psychologist/counselor in an English faith school.

The motivation from the terrorist POV seems to be based on pride and the promise/reward of eternal life.

Maybe if the Imams could denounce every terrorist that commits those acts as a coward according to their practices, instead of being put up as being a hero figure? How that could be enforced I've got no idea, or whether that would be seen as bigotry.
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  #12  
Old 27th December 2016, 02:18 PM
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Default Re: How to defeat terrorists? True extremism.

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SEG said View Post
Maybe if the Imams could denounce every terrorist that commits those acts as a coward according to their practices, instead of being put up as being a hero figure? How that could be enforced I've got no idea, or whether that would be seen as bigotry.
A great many of them do condemn said acts, loudly and on the regular. It doesn't fit in with the narrative of all muslims being bad, so you don't hear about it.
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  #13  
Old 27th December 2016, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: How to defeat terrorists? True extremism.

The thing is to compare with figures such as the number of lifelong atheists who have become terrorists.
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Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

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  #14  
Old 27th December 2016, 03:12 PM
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Default Re: How to defeat terrorists? True extremism.

Religion is organised unreason, but of course it is not the only one. Party politics is often without much reasoning and evidence and more about ideologies in conflict. That said, religion is the continuation of politics by other means.

This will only change when society no longer finds it acceptable for people to be able to claim reason-free, evidence free, arse-gravy as facts [whether it be religious, political or cultural]. The "productions" of bias -things like terrorism, as well as 'good deeds" will be direct consequences of that acceptance.
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Old 27th December 2016, 03:17 PM
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Default Re: How to defeat terrorists? True extremism.

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SEG said View Post
I actually went to Harris as a source (as I am a fan of his) and found his views on Islam and terrorists rubbished on Rational Wiki: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Sam_Harris
It's not just his views on Islam that are rubbish; he holds a number of irrational positions which he just can't seem to find the ability to analyze. He also comes across as quite naive in many respects, highlighted in particular with his exchanges with Chomsky.

I will say, however, that he appears to try very hard and does come across as completely honest.
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  #16  
Old 27th December 2016, 06:08 PM
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Default Re: How to defeat terrorists? True extremism.

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A great many of them do condemn said acts, loudly and on the regular. It doesn't fit in with the narrative of all muslims being bad, so you don't hear about it.
Really? I haven't seen that, but I would definitely like to see it. Can you provide any sources?
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  #17  
Old 27th December 2016, 06:36 PM
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Default Re: How to defeat terrorists? True extremism.

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SEG said View Post
Quote:
Goldenmane said View Post
A great many of them do condemn said acts, loudly and on the regular. It doesn't fit in with the narrative of all muslims being bad, so you don't hear about it.
Really? I haven't seen that, but I would definitely like to see it. Can you provide any sources?
http://time.com/4112830/muslims-pari...islam-condemn/

https://thinkprogress.org/heres-your...0aa#.id4s9fphf

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b009377b249dea

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/natio...361309791.html

Three seconds on Google.
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  #18  
Old 27th December 2016, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: How to defeat terrorists? True extremism.

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SEG said View Post
Really? I haven't seen that, but I would definitely like to see it. Can you provide any sources?
Most religious people are not monsters, and have moral sense. Or to put it another way, most people are nice or reasonably so, irrespective of beliefs.

The 2015 referendum on marriage equality passed easily, despite Ireland being a very Roman Catholic country.
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  #19  
Old 27th December 2016, 08:02 PM
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Default Re: How to defeat terrorists? True extremism.

Here's the one I was looking for.

http://www.teenvogue.com/story/teen-...cing-terrorism

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  #20  
Old 27th December 2016, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: How to defeat terrorists? True extremism.

It is still an utterly bizarre concept, really.

A person on the other side of the world, a person you've never met, a person you have no relationship with whatsoever commits a crime, and certain sectors of society believe you should be publicly apologizing on their behalf!

The expectation is bizarre, and the impetus to do so is bizarre. It's religion, the divine football club.
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