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  #1  
Old 8th September 2016, 04:15 PM
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Am I alone in being an Athiest from birth...i see this is a site for the converted. It is still early and i need to look around
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Old 8th September 2016, 04:19 PM
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Am I alone in being an Athiest from birth...i see this is a site for the converted. It is still early and i need to look around
I've never believed.
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Atheist: n; A person to be pitied in that he is unable to believe things for which there is no evidence, and who has thus deprived himself of a convenient means of feeling superior to others.
—Chaz Bufe, The American Heretic’s Dictionary
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Old 8th September 2016, 04:24 PM
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Default Re: Athiest

Can you be an atheist from birth? Anymore than you could be a Christian, Or Buddhist?
Or maybe everybody is an atheist from birth....?
I was brought up Christian, but always had doubts about it. When i grew up and struck out on my own these doubts soon became conviction.
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Old 8th September 2016, 05:32 PM
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Normally we are introduced to the concept of God as soon as we are able to grasp it, and before the concept of death is introduced. That way we are primed to accept the introduced religion's concept of an afterlife, and figuring out that that religion makes little sense when we are old enough to reason can be portrayed as rejection, or as choosing darkness over light.
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Old 8th September 2016, 07:49 PM
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Default Re: Atheist

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Col said View Post
Am I alone in being an Athiest from birth...i see this is a site for the converted. It is still early and i need to look around
No, everybody is an atheist from birth.

http://reciprocity-giving-something-...ntics-and.html
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Old 8th September 2016, 09:12 PM
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Default Re: Atheist

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hackenslash said View Post
No, everybody is an atheist from birth.

http://reciprocity-giving-something-...ntics-and.html
Read that, digesting.... might have a few questions later.
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Old 9th September 2016, 12:17 AM
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Default Re: Atheist

My position is a little (ok, maybe a lot) different.
Atheism without theism makes no sense. I can't claim to be axxxxxist if I don't know what xxxxxism is, or if it even exists.

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Atheism is simply the non-acceptance of a specific class of truth-claim with regard to the existence of deities. One doesn't have to be a conscious, thinking entity to qualify, and all entities that are incapable of forming an opinion, including bricks, are thus defined.
I agree with the 1st sentence, not the second. 'Non-acceptance' for me doesn't sound like the default position, it sounds like a choice.
The very next paragraph:
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Now, some apologists will say that this can't be correct, because if somebody tells you that they are atheist, it tells you that they've thought about it and arrived at a specific position. This particular fallacy, a form of category error, is a simple confusion of map with terrain. Certainly somebody that tells you they're atheist has given it sufficient thought to have arrived at this, but atheism doesn't require the ability to tell somebody you're atheist, only that you don't believe.
Again, if an entity cannot communicate his atheism, ( because he's a cooking pot, or a hamburger or a newborn human) neither theism or atheism makes sense, imo.


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Here we see the real issue I have with this entire approach. Thing is, I never did become an atheist. I always was one. I never believed. For the record, I tried really hard to believe when I was young. I come from a very large Catholic family, and it seemed really important to all the people I cared about that I'd have an eternal life which, in their esteem, could only come about by accepting Christ as my saviour. I could never suspend disbelief sufficiently to be able to accept the central claims of Christianity. They were simply never believable to me. My scientific attitude and my valuation of evidence and reason, which I share with Myers, came later. Was I not an atheist until I held such attitudes?
The underlined bit, no, I don't think so, you became an atheist when you tried to embrace religion and couldn't.

All in all, the article is interesting and thought-provoking. Great thing about atheism, neither of us is going to hell if we're wrong .
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Old 9th September 2016, 01:04 AM
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Default Re: Atheist

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Svadifari said View Post
My position is a little (ok, maybe a lot) different.
Atheism without theism makes no sense. I can't claim to be axxxxxist if I don't know what xxxxxism is, or if it even exists.
Agreed, and I covered that. It makes exactly as nuch sense as calling a brick bald, except that, by analogy, we have hairy bricks. That's an issue of utility. Also, you're conflating atheism with the state of being able to express the state, which I also covered.

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'Non-acceptance' for me doesn't sound like the default position, it sounds like a choice.
That's a matter of language. In fact, it's simply expressing scepticism, which must be the default, because it's scepticism is the rebuttable position for any given claim. The real problem is that the term I've chosen only sound active. Anybody who hasn't actively accepted a claim is in this position, even if passively.


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Again, if an entity cannot communicate his atheism, ( because he's a cooking pot, or a hamburger or a newborn human) neither theism or atheism makes sense, imo.
That's because you're not seeing the term for what it is, namely a privative.


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The underlined bit, no, I don't think so, you became an atheist when you tried to embrace religion and couldn't.
That can only be true if atheism is a positive position. If we say that atheism is some variation of 'absence of belief', then it can't be active, and we're working with a privative. Since my 'absence of belief' was entirely unaltered throughout this process, it cannot be the case that I 'became' atheist.

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l in all, the article is interesting and thought-provoking.
Ta.

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Great thing about atheism, neither of us is going to hell if we're wrong .
Aye.
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  #9  
Old 9th September 2016, 01:13 AM
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Default Re: Atheist

An important thing to keep in mind about the word atheism, is that it has been subject to a largely successful misinformation campaign by Theists for quite some time now.

Theists want people to desperately believe that atheism is just as much as matter of "faith" as their theism is. The have gone to great lengths to perpetuate the myth that atheists "believe with certainty that there is no god" and other such tripe. Judging by the aversion that some people have to the label "atheist" because of the stupid notions theists have attached to it, the misinformation campaign has been pretty successful.

All I can ask is that people don't get suckered in.

An atheist is any person who lacks belief in a specific class of entity, in this case a deity. It doesn't matter if you're confident in this belief, or on the fence as to whether deities exist or not, if you're not convinced on the matter of deities, if you don't "believe" in them in the deeply delusional way theists do, then you are an atheist.

You might be an agnostic atheist or an gnostic atheist. It doesn't matter. You're still an atheist.

If you've never entertained or had to entertain the idea of deities, then you don't believe in them and you're an atheist.

If you've entertained the idea of deities and found it lacking, no longer believing in them. Then you're an atheist.

Being an atheist does not require you to deny deities exist. Indeed, rationally, you can simply point to the lack of evidence on which any such belief could be hinged.

Beliefs based on evidence are beliefs.
Beliefs based on an absence of evidence or where the evidence runs contrary to the belief, are delusions.
And the acceptance of things as being true without the need for evidence, is called faith.
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  #10  
Old 9th September 2016, 01:27 AM
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Default Re: Atheist

I certainly have no aversion to the label atheist.
It just seems to me that some things labeled 'atheist' might better be labeled 'naive'.
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