School Chaplaincy

[Logic please]

Just caught Hungry Beast on ABC1 tonight, and they had a segment about the NSCP, which was *quite* critical:

Originally Posted by Hungry Beast precis

School Chaplains - the almost $440 million Commonwealth cash spent putting chaplains in schools, rather than trained counsellors.

Appropriately, the title and theme of tonight's episode was "Waste"...

It includes a grab from an interview with Tim Mander (CEO Scripture Union Qld) where he point-blank denies that their chaplains are doing any counselling that they're not qualified to do etc... followed by, and contrasted with, their own school chaplaincy recruitment video, populated with shiny-eyed evangelic-types waxing lyrical about *helping* kids with bullying, eating disorders, domestic abuse and suicide prevention...

WTF??? Do they all think everyone else is too stupid to figure the inconsistency between their rhetoric and the reality? Or are they just so secure in the patronage of both major political parties, that they simply don't care?

Video available on Hungry Beast website HERE. I hope to post a transcript if / when available.

As I was watching, I couldn't help but think:

Mooted cuts to Australian medical research funding - $400m

2700 chaplains in Australian schools - $440m

Alleged support of religious voters, in preference to genuinely worthwhile programs - priceless

There are some fucked-up priorities that money can't buy... for everything else, there's MasterPollie^TM

ADD: thanks for download link, Mr B (see post below)

[RealityRules]

Originally Posted by Logic please

Video available on Hungry Beast website HERE

NSCP part starts @ 13.40.

add:

• watch John Howard sway & shuffle around before announcing the national program
• Rudd asserts "school chaplains are making a difference" without elaboration*
• Garrett has to defend a PM's poorly-rolled out program, again (watch him close & wring his hands @ 19.00).
• Good call on the contradictions between Tim Mander and SU's promotional video, LP

* Rudd got the first chaplains introduced into schools (in QLD) when Wayne Goss's chief of staff

[Feuerbach]

Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black

@Feuerbach: I guess you're familiar with the DOGS case and the ruling on Section 116 of the Constitution?

LINKY partly-quoted:

Interesting. I'd expect there to be mulling over the establishment wording. But the fact is the govt is establishing religious-based activity in public schools - I guess it would depend on the judges at the time to intepret it in a way that fits their own bias. You could also argue the govt is "establishing" religious organisations by propping them up with this money.

However, thie bigger challenge I think is the "no religious test.. for public trust" clause. Clearly, given the fact this is called "chaplaincy" inititiative (a highly charged religious word) and that the vast majority are christians with clear agendas to spread religion (their own explicit public pronouncements) that there IS a religious test for becoming a chaplain.

The NSCP is a gross misappropriation of public money, and a pathetic appeasement to the religious lobby - not to mention a clear breach of the constitution and a slap in the face to our secular beliefs. Gillard and Garret's continued support and bolstering of the program disgusts me beyond belief. It is vomitous kowtowing to a vocal minority pressure group to impose faith-based policies on ALL children and ALL schools in the country.

Could you imagine the fury and rage the religious windbags would be exploding with had this been a humanist-based inititative?

When are we finally going to organise politically in such a way as to negate these vile religious lobbyists?

Religion. Poisons. Everything.

[Worldslaziestbusker]

Originally Posted by Feuerbach

When are we finally going to organise politically in such a way as to negate these religious lobbyists?

At exactly the moment you form a political party that represents my* goals better than any other.

* for a given value of "we" that includes only you and I.

Oh, wait, did you mean when is someone else going to organise politically so I don't have to?
Fuck. Gotta get off the grumpy pills this week.
No, wait, the other thing. People should stop trying to tell me how I should be going about my business without really good reasons or examples of their own efforts to date.

[Feuerbach]

Originally Posted by Worldslaziestbusker

At exactly the moment you form a political party that represents my* goals better than any other.

* for a given value of "we" that includes only you and I.

Oh, wait, did you mean when is someone else going to organise politically so I don't have to?
Fuck. Gotta get off the grumpy pills this week.
No, wait, the other thing. People should stop trying to tell me how I should be going about my business without really good reasons or examples of their own efforts to date.

WTF is your problem?

The ACL is not a political party it is a lobby group. Forming a political party is not necessarily the answer. However, there is one, called the secular party of NSW (and I'm a member).

But there is also the australiansecularlobby.com which already exists. Just needs some momentum and smart promotion behind it. Get some prominent people behind it. It simply has nowhere near the kind of pull to match the ACL.

[wolty]

Mod note. Calm please people.

[Worldslaziestbusker]

Originally Posted by Feuerbach

WTF is your problem?

My problem is that people keep trying to tell me what to do.
Be more assertive.
Be more polite.
Burn a Bible.
Write an atheist creed.
Read this book.
Read my blog.
Meditate.
Pray.
The demands come thick and fast and usually without any compelling argument that following the instructions would benefit me or anyone else. I'd be happier if people who wanted my support/endorsement/involvement simply told me what they got up to and let their results speak for themselves. Plaintive cries of anguish at a lack of immediate change in any direction, and instructions to do x to accelerate change is not as compelling as seeing someone lead by example.

. Forming a political party is not necessarily the answer. However, there is one, called the secular party of NSW (and I'm a member).

There. Wasn't that hard, was it. Bully for you.
So, what has the party achieved? What does it plan to acheive and how? I can't find reference to them online.

[Threat]

Originally Posted by Worldslaziestbusker

So, what has the party achieved? What does it plan to acheive and how? I can't find reference to them online.

www.secular.org.au

(But you already knew that didn't you WLB? )

I'm a member of the Victorian branch. I haven't attended a meeting though, just as I haven't attended any AFA function/meetup either. Whilst I find all the discussions here enthralling, day-to-day life just keeps on ticking over with hardly ever any overlap into Atheism stuff. The closest its come is the chaplain thing.

I see Australian politics as either choose Labour or Liberal, or choose your 1-policy niche party (because any other party with more than 1 'policy' is deluding themselves).

The Secular party is my 'niche' party. I've helped out my local candidate for the Secular Party in the fed election, stood there all day handing our fliers, stuck up some signs. It's the most politically active I've ever been (does walking in the anti-VSU protests at Uni count? Even if we left it halfway along to go to Maccas?).

I sometimes think I should be doing more 'for the cause'. But I reckon you're right WLB, someone telling me to 'do something' has less effect than me looking myself, joining a party and then seeing what people are already doing and just adding a bit of my own effort (and I mean a really, really little bit).

I would urge any AFA member to have a look at the Secular Party, but I'd assume most already have. I just hope it becomes the major party for their aims, i.e. we don't have several parties, dividing their supporters amongst each other, but with extremely similar aims.

[Worldslaziestbusker]

Originally Posted by Threat

www.secular.org.au

(But you already knew that didn't you WLB? )

No. I looked to the secular party website but couldn't find any state level break down and no search returned anything specific to New South Wales.
Have you fininshed reading "The Selfish Gene," yet?

[Major Wedgie]

Originally Posted by Threat

www.secular.org.au
The Secular party is my 'niche' party. I've helped out my local candidate for the Secular Party in the fed election, stood there all day handing our fliers, stuck up some signs. It's the most politically active I've ever been (does walking in the anti-VSU protests at Uni count? Even if we left it halfway along to go to Maccas?).

I currently support the Greens, I used to vote Labour but they have swung to far to the right for my liking now. I had a look at the secular party website, because I didn't know much about their other policies and was turned off by their Nuclear Power policy. I've pretty much found nothing in the Greens Policy list that I disagree with so they match my 'belief system' best.

I got involved in much the same way you did at the '07 election handing out fliers, putting up signs etc... Whilst I was handing out the fliers the "Family First" flier guy handed someone a flier and said something like "G'day Bill, help get another Christian up" and I pulled him up saying he wasn't allowed to do that, because I read the rules which, being Christian, they obviously don't have to do.