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  #21  
Old 4th August 2016, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: Critical Thinking

All good - my point is that Einstein may have been accused of overthinking until he came up with some shit that blew everyone away - but he was working on a problem - that is not overthinking - overthinking, IMO, is worrying about something trivial


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  #22  
Old 5th August 2016, 10:09 PM
Azurisan21 Azurisan21 is offline
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Default Re: Critical Thinking

I'm very interested in critical thinking within the context of law and justice.

Anyway, Mark Sean, I'm writing my illustrated novels (long time), thinking about one Kingdom and its principles of humanitarian justice. Mark, if you're similarly interested, perhaps we can dive into this area.

Normally, not to jeopardise my anonymity by disclosing details of the novels, best point of contact is Facebook or PM.
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  #23  
Old 5th August 2016, 11:29 PM
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Default Re: Critical Thinking

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Mark Sean said View Post
Why the cartoons? This is not Facebook.
As messed up as my thinking may be, I will be straight up.
For fun. But, straight up, how do you think you understand what exemplary thinking looks like without believing it possible in humans? If you've had relations with a superhuman you're not telling us about, tell us about it.
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  #24  
Old 5th August 2016, 11:32 PM
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Default Re: Critical Thinking

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Mark: I need help with my thinking - but it needs to be from those that are up to speed with what critical thinking is - and I know they are here (if they are anywhere.)

An analogy (for an atheist) would be going to a counsellor and have them talk about finding 'the way'.
Not this atheist!

I'm sure we can help you find your way though.
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  #25  
Old 6th August 2016, 04:15 PM
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DanDare DanDare is offline
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Default Re: Critical Thinking

Critical thinking is itself insufficient. It has methods for working on information but not for kicking around your perception of information. Perceptions form and are made complete in our minds as soon as a piece of information arrives. That perception frames new information received afterward. Perceptual momentum causes us to fit information as best we can to our current thinking. Critical thinking does not easily shift those mental patterns.

Einstein's big insights came from reorganising an understanding of existing information rather than responding to new information. There are techniques for doing that that are as rigorous as analysis known as lateral thinking.
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  #26  
Old 6th August 2016, 04:47 PM
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Darwinsbulldog Darwinsbulldog is offline
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Default Re: Critical Thinking

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DanDare said View Post
Critical thinking is itself insufficient. It has methods for working on information but not for kicking around your perception of information. Perceptions form and are made complete in our minds as soon as a piece of information arrives. That perception frames new information received afterward. Perceptual momentum causes us to fit information as best we can to our current thinking. Critical thinking does not easily shift those mental patterns.

Einstein's big insights came from reorganising an understanding of existing information rather than responding to new information. There are techniques for doing that that are as rigorous as analysis known as lateral thinking.
I don't think that critical thinking is the problem, it is the way evidence-free religions are taught. At the very least, relgions are taught as sacred cows "above analytical thought". Mostly when citical thinking is used in theology, it is to debunk some other religion.

Studying comparitive religion, under the aegis of disciplines like anthropology, sociology or psychology, would if properly done, involve critical thinking as a vital component.

Instead, most religion is [at best] taught as apologetics, and at worst as just another prayer meeting.

IF the only type of religious instruction in the world was comparitive religion, where every religion was studied without fear or favour, where every assumption, piece of theological "evidence" [eg scripture etc] was thouroughly examined, there would be VERY few theists.
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  #27  
Old 28th April 2017, 10:59 PM
Mark Sean Mark Sean is offline
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Default Re: Critical Thinking

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DanDare said View Post
Critical thinking is itself insufficient. It has methods for working on information but not for kicking around your perception of information. Perceptions form and are made complete in our minds as soon as a piece of information arrives. That perception frames new information received afterward. Perceptual momentum causes us to fit information as best we can to our current thinking. Critical thinking does not easily shift those mental patterns.

Einstein's big insights came from reorganising an understanding of existing information rather than responding to new information. There are techniques for doing that that are as rigorous as analysis known as lateral thinking.
Bullshit Dan. I have dropped the link to critical thinking more than once here, and no-one has challenged my assertion that it is the most substantive concept of critical thinking there is. You have not read it, or if you have you have not absorbed it . If you think critical thinking is insufficient (as per my link) then you don't understand it. I would be happy to engage with you on this. Critical thinking is the umbrella under which all thinking occurs - we may just differ on terms. Having spewed all that, if I cant communicate with you in a meaningful way, I will just fucking give up and go bush.
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  #28  
Old 28th April 2017, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: Critical Thinking

Quote:
Mark Sean said View Post
Quote:
DanDare said View Post
Critical thinking is itself insufficient. It has methods for working on information but not for kicking around your perception of information. Perceptions form and are made complete in our minds as soon as a piece of information arrives. That perception frames new information received afterward. Perceptual momentum causes us to fit information as best we can to our current thinking. Critical thinking does not easily shift those mental patterns.

Einstein's big insights came from reorganising an understanding of existing information rather than responding to new information. There are techniques for doing that that are as rigorous as analysis known as lateral thinking.
Bullshit Dan. I have dropped the link to critical thinking more than once here, and no-one has challenged my assertion that it is the most substantive concept of critical thinking there is. You have not read it, or if you have you have not absorbed it . If you think critical thinking is insufficient (as per my link) then you don't understand it. I would be happy to engage with you on this. Critical thinking is the umbrella under which all thinking occurs - we may just differ on terms. Having spewed all that, if I cant communicate with you in a meaningful way, I will just fucking give up and go bush.
Fuck you very much Sean for your calm and open dialog.

Now are you referring to your link to http://www.criticalthinking.org/ ? That is a generalised site about critical thinking that is enormous. You expect me to read every relevant and irrelevant corner of it and buy every book before I can discuss it? Fuck that for a cunt of a joke.

So, now, please tell me where critical thinking is used to help people make perceptual redirections? Where does it guide folks to observe the partial information they have to hand and create different emotional and perceptual responses to it? Where does critical thinking lead to alternative scan and provide the process where alternatives can be generated? Where is the insight mechanism to help when you cannot generate ideas to solve a problem? Where is the explorative aspect that allows groups of people to lay down many perceptions in a cognitive map? If its the umbrella under which all thinking occurs it should be able to do those things and should just be called "thinking" wouldn't you agree?
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"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government".
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Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.
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  #29  
Old 28th April 2017, 11:30 PM
Mark Sean Mark Sean is offline
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Default Re: Critical Thinking

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Darwinsbulldog said View Post
I don't think that critical thinking is the problem, it is the way evidence-free religions are taught. At the very least, relgions are taught as sacred cows "above analytical thought". Mostly when citical thinking is used in theology, it is to debunk some other religion.

Studying comparitive religion, under the aegis of disciplines like anthropology, sociology or psychology, would if properly done, involve critical thinking as a vital component.

Instead, most religion is [at best] taught as apologetics, and at worst as just another prayer meeting.

IF the only type of religious instruction in the world was comparitive religion, where every religion was studied without fear or favour, where every assumption, piece of theological "evidence" [eg scripture etc] was thouroughly examined, there would be VERY few theists.
Here's the thing DBD, critical thinking and theology don't mix. Oh. I know some wankers think they know what critical thinking is when they talk about creation bollocks, and use the term in a way that makes me want to slap them. Critical Thinking amongst atheists is marginally better ,if at all.
We don't accept the idea that there is a god - so fucking what, the moronic walk amongst us too! Perhaps we should drop the Critical part of Critical Thinking..no.no no I will slap myself for suggesting that. Better to keep slapping those that think behaviour is the thing to be changed ,until they realize, and get up to speed with the idea that thinking is the focus. There are plenty of loud mouthed . arrogant. bigoted, misogynist, ignorant douche bags that don't have a belief in any god.
If I voiced this rant in public, I would be looked at as weird. Here, there may be a few that understand the frustration behind it.
What the fuck ever.
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  #30  
Old 28th April 2017, 11:54 PM
Mark Sean Mark Sean is offline
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Default Re: Critical Thinking

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DanDare said View Post
Fuck you very much Sean for your calm and open dialog.

Now are you referring to your link to http://www.criticalthinking.org/ ? That is a generalised site about critical thinking that is enormous. You expect me to read every relevant and irrelevant corner of it and buy every book before I can discuss it? Fuck that for a cunt of a joke.

So, now, please tell me where critical thinking is used to help people make perceptual redirections? Where does it guide folks to observe the partial information they have to hand and create different emotional and perceptual responses to it? Where does critical thinking lead to alternative scan and provide the process where alternatives can be generated? Where is the insight mechanism to help when you cannot generate ideas to solve a problem? Where is the explorative aspect that allows groups of people to lay down many perceptions in a cognitive map? If its the umbrella under which all thinking occurs it should be able to do those things and should just be called "thinking" wouldn't you agree?
Yes Dan , I do. If you want to make the statement that Critical Thinking is insufficient, and you are not up to speed with what critical thinking is, you just have to wear it.
Perceptual redirections? Read the fucking thing FFS.
Short answer Dan, you are using what to pose these questions. You have not digested the link I posted. This is no different to when we have a creationist come here and we provide links and they don't read it.
If you want to do anythinking, it rightly falls under the umbrella of Critical Thinking - on a scale of shit to exemplary.
Scientific thinking falls under the umbrella of Critical Thinking - all knowledge is the output of other's Critical Thinking.
No ,I don't agree that we can just call bog standard human thinking anything other than bog standard flawed bollocks, when it is directed at understanding what is. I know you know this.
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