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  #11  
Old 2nd September 2015, 10:45 AM
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DanDare DanDare is offline
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Default Re: Media Release: A Tale of Two Cities

Mr Powel (Pastor, Generate):
Quote:
'Just heard today that Burwood Girls is making it compulsory for all students to attend the screening of a film promoting homosexuality,'

'This was about combating coercion, I would also have a real problem with forcing everyone to watch a film about the Ten Commandments and making everyone dress up as Moses'
That he had his mission work cut back by the school principle suggests a motive other than the stated one but does not change the philosophical argument.

That he presented the government with the idea that "parents were outraged" suggests that the government did not investigate to see if the claims were true and that Mr Powel is a liar, but does not change the philosophical argument.

So lets look at the claims as an argument:
p1) The film promotes homosexuality
p2) It is wrong to promote homosexuality
p3) The film was to be viewed by compulsion
p4) It is wrong to make viewing a film compulsory
conclusion) Therefore showing the movie to the students in this manner should not be allowed

Does the film "promote" homosexuality?
a) It can be taken that to "promote" means to encourage students to become homosexual. If this were so then that would indeed be a bad thing, as schools should not be doing such things. However homosexuality is not a choice or a lifestyle, so this view of "promote" is nonsensical.

b) it can be taken that to "promote" means to suggest to the students that homosexuality is ok and should not cary any stigma. This would be very much in the school's remit, to ensure students have a grasp on the realities of the society they live in and to try and produce well rounded citizens, while removing bigotry where possible. This appears to be what the film does and so is a good thing.

By this analysis P1 and p2 are both false rendering the conclusion false.

Was the movie being shown to the student as a compulsory viewing?
It would seem that that is the case, so p3 is true.

Is it wrong to make watching a movie at school compulsory?
For this to be true it must be that it is wrong for all such cases. However many classes at school have required reading and viewing material. This film would be in line with social studies required viewing material. So p4) is false.

Conclusion
Let me depart slightly from the formal philosophy as that conclusion is obvious and I feel needs some expansion, to wit:
Mr Powel is full of shit, a liar and a manipulator.
NSW Education Minister Adrian Piccoli is a coward and/or religiously motivated and/or an idiot.
NSW Premier Mike Baird is not far behind
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Last edited by DanDare; 2nd September 2015 at 10:51 AM.
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  #12  
Old 3rd September 2015, 03:20 PM
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DanDare DanDare is offline
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Default Re: Media Release: A Tale of Two Cities

Hmm, I missed a bit in the last one. So for completeness:

Quote:
I would also have a real problem with forcing everyone to watch a film about the Ten Commandments and making everyone dress up as Moses
Making everyone dress up as Moses is irrelevant here as there is no suggestion that anyone act out roles from the movie. There is a suggestion that people wear purple and have purple cup cakes and that that is a sign of support for same sex parents. This could be problematic but I don't wish to explore that here as I am focused on the issue of showing movies supportive of various subjects.

So, would it be wrong to show a movie about the ten commandments as a compulsory item in class time? If the context was exploring world religions and current philosophies as a subject and producing more tolerant and knowledgeable students then the questions to elucidate the value of it would be:
1) does the film assert the ten commandments and religion connected to them are true and that all viewers must accept this? If so then I would be inclined to reject the inclusion of the film in primary and secondary school contexts.
2) does the film engage the students with an understanding of the culture, beliefs and history of the ten commandments? If so its probably a good social studies piece.
3) are films for other religions and cultures of equal value and depth to be shown to the students in this class, including films on movements such as humanism? If not then I would consider rejecting the film as an over emphasis on one religion or culture only.
4) If a reasonable collection of such films is to be shown are they crowding out the curriculum in an unbalanced way? If not then I would say its all systems go.
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-Thomas Jefferson

Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

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  #13  
Old 4th September 2015, 05:07 AM
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Default Re: Media Release: A Tale of Two Cities

Last I checked, the only person saying the viewing was compulsory was the fucking religious fount of bigotry responsible for this debacle.

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  #14  
Old 4th September 2015, 11:06 AM
stevebrooks stevebrooks is offline
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Default Re: Media Release: A Tale of Two Cities

Quote:
Goldenmane said View Post
Last I checked, the only person saying the viewing was compulsory was the fucking religious fount of bigotry responsible for this debacle.

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Viewing the film is as compulsory as attending SRI, which we keep getting told should be opt out rather than opt in, so I don't know what they are complaining about, it's the exact same system they insist is fair, but of course only when they use it. We can safely accept that the school will actually honour the opt out parental responses, unlike many of the opt out SRI responses where they try to sneakily incorporate them anyway.
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  #15  
Old 11th September 2015, 09:23 AM
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pipbarber pipbarber is offline
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Default Re: Media Release: A Tale of Two Cities

As a victorian i didnt really expect much from the new premier when was elected late last year, he seemed fairly bland and basically won on the basis of an infrastructure issue involving roads.

Happily though, he is beginning to accumulate a track record of progressive decisions. Including yesterdays announcement that he'll introduce a bill to legalise medical marijuana.

Andrews is a devote catholic, unfortunately, but in relation to an abortion bill several years ago when he was health minister he stated he "... [did] not intend to be a Catholic health minister ... [rather], it is my intention to be the Victorian health minister". (wikipedia)

Thats the spirit! (excuse the pun). If Tony could leave his catholicism at the parliament door before entering he'd be a far better PM.
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