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Getting started New to atheism or still in the process of removing those final theistic indoctrinations?

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  #21  
Old 25th April 2013, 03:20 PM
the_gelf the_gelf is offline
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Default Re: Scared

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fromthericefields said View Post
When I was younger they taught me it was a blessing, and it was His will for a special reason.
With the promise "you'll find out after you are dead". ?

Awesome!

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fromthericefields said View Post
I find religion tends to revolve around the 'I'm the chosen one' complex.
Religion is feeding a human/animal egocentric need to feel important. This need is what kept us alive as an evolving species for hundreds of millions of years
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fromthericefields said View Post
It's not lying itself, I don't have a problem with lying if it is needed, but knowing the fact that I will eventually have to share it with them. Right now I think it might be best to be upfront in this case.

I mean if you were in my shoes I'm guessing you'd be upfront and say that you don't believe in god and that religion is wrong because he does not exist because it's truth and fact.
I don't go around telling people I'm atheist. I feel no need to, as at the end of the today for me, it isn't that important for people to know. I embody it. But to others in Western society I also embody the archetype of a 'good christian'.

I work in an office with quite a range of faiths. One Pentecostal woman(let's just say I avoid this person, while being polite), one muslim woman, a lax catholic, a greek orthodox (one of my best friends), a girl with some close-fundie religion and the rest are probably some brand of lax Christianity. My previous supervisor(who works in the same branch but different area), and my best friend 'know' i'm not religious. It's my argumentative questioning nature that gives it away. I don't go out of my way to start arguments. What is the point? I have to work with these people. I don't have to associate with them outside of work if I don't wish.


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fromthericefields said View Post

I was up most of the night last night well into the early morning thinking things out until I pretty much passed out. Thinking, and Reading.

I can say I'm 99% sure there is no god (I hope this is not the wrong answer) it's not possible to be 100% sure is it?
I don't wish to take the blue pill and go back into religion. I've come out if it, and have no desire to return.
Thinking in non black-white terms will be your challenge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectru...ic_probability


My view: I have heard and read no description by any person of a god-being that makes the god a god, and makes them worth worshipping, therefore I am a 7 on the Richard-Dawkins scale using this rationality. Sure, you can call something that is impotent and doesn't care about humans a 'god' but why should this be worth wosrhipping/believing? If anything, worship protists and bacteria. There are lots more of them. And you can see them.
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fromthericefields said View Post
What I am having difficulty with is changing my old ways of thinking and recreating a new person without religion.

I'm trying to get around taboos that I was taught that were abominable. Such as gay marriage. I'm not gay and don't have an desire to ever be. But when I see gay people I tend to cringe before I remind myself otherwise that they are people too.
This is a un-indoctrinating challenge for you again. Homosexuality isn't black/white. Many other animals partake in homosexual behaviour, and it doesn't affect their ability to procreate.

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fromthericefields said View Post
'Dirty' talk about sex and other natural things is common, I never noticed it before as I always tended to avoid those kind of people. Now coming in contact with them I'm unsure how to react, even though I know it's only dirty because religion makes it to be.

Hope you understand. I in no way will go back to religion. But am still struggling with the remaining dirt.
An I realise I'm probably the archetype of the devil-incarnate to the '17-year old you'.

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fromthericefields said View Post
It's like I have to un-educate myself before I can carry on.

I'm still going over to my parents as I promised I have to anyway as my younger brother somehow got his underpants mixed in with my stash and now he's got none I have no idea how he did that. I've also got a vocational placement the next day near their place so a sleepover is in the works too.

I'm not as worried as I did a lot of that last night, feeling a bit more confident now. We'll see how it goes?
Have fun
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  #22  
Old 25th April 2013, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: Scared

Hi ftrf,

your tale has my guts churning. I hope it goes well.

The reason I identify is not the religion problem, I have never had that one, but the backing off and not speaking out problem. Its taken me a long time to learn to stand my ground and at the age of fifty...uh...something...I still have trouble with authority figures. Yet I hate it so much when I haven't spoken my piece fully that I have to do it anyway, however uncomfortable it makes me.

So please, let us know how you are and my feelings go out to you.
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  #23  
Old 25th April 2013, 06:49 PM
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I identify with you as well. I love and admire my parents very much and it is not easy to hurt them or make them fearful for you. I suspect my parents are not as fanatical as yours, but I have avoided having the conversation to confirm their suspicions that I have no faith any more. Living interstate makes the issue easier to avoid.

Good luck.

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  #24  
Old 25th April 2013, 08:33 PM
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nambawanatheist nambawanatheist is offline
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Default Re: Scared

It is only natural to want validation from your parents; that shit never goes away, really. It sounds like you're getting to know them more as people and less as parents...warts and all. I wish I can elaborate but I have a food coma (the sin of gluttony!) that's sapping energy from the brain to the stomach; all I can say for now is that they'll get over it, eventually.

Do let us know how it goes at their place; I think you may have a few people quite invested in your story now.

Good luck and my thoughts are definitely with you. What you're doing is brave.
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  #25  
Old 26th April 2013, 03:19 PM
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fromthericefields fromthericefields is offline
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Default Re: Scared

Well I'm back, and still very much alive .
I think it went very well.

I had spent most of Wednesday night staying up thinking a lot about where I stood, what I believed, and what/how/when to share the news to my family. I didn't go to bed until I nearly passed out at 3:00AM in the morning. By the next morning I had decided. I was an Atheist. When I made that decision I felt released and relieved. No longer was I stuck in the gap between religion and real life. I biked to my parents place (40 minutes away via bike) at 4:00PM arriving just before supper. I pondered what to do the entire 40 minutes on the way to my parents place.

My younger brother met me as I came in wanting the mouse and his underpants back . Chatted with him for a bit before coming into the main room where everyone else was. I felt really awkward and feeling almost like a stranger but said hi to everyone. We just talked about a few brief general things before my mom mentioned about supper being soon. I took that opening to ask if I could talk to them about supper separately. I felt that announcing it to everyone was the wrong thing to do. So we went into my former room and sat down and told them the news.

I was really nervous I couldn't stop wringing my hands but I told them that I no longer believed in a god, and that I was willing to sit out the meal if they did not want me involved or if I would be in the way.
It was a big shock to both of them, but both reacted differently. My mom just sat there and quietly digested it at first, but my dad's face was covered with horror. He couldn't believe it at first, they couldn't respond at first. I told them that it had nothing to do with the people I was staying with (because it wasn't) and that I came to the decision myself. It was not a rash decision but I had spent a long time in thinking about it, I did my research and came up with the conclusion myself. I told them again that I wanted to be honest and share it with them. I left them for a while to digest it. My mom said it was ok for me to join supper, I just left at the part where they did the bread and wine to use the bathroom.

After super I played a Lego game on the PC with my younger brother, he had been waiting for me to help him out via co-op play on a level he and my youngest sister couldn't figure out. My dad also needed help with the video editing software on their PC to get the transitions and subtitle for one of his teaching videos to work so I helped him and showed him how to make it work (parents and electronics ).

Afterwards I was outside the door using my phone to check emails when my dad came out. First we talked generally then he asked me how did I come to that conclusion and had a lot of questions.

I presented my view, about the bible having too many holes, and that I've questioned many things growing up that could not be answered.

I explained that I had to think outside the box and view our religion as an outsider would see it and I realized that all cultures think the same about their religion.

Christianity was not the first religion, Judiasim (the old version) wasn't either. If we looked at our history books we would find the earliest religion (up to my knowledge were the Summerieans who worshiped multiple gods. If Moses was truly chosen by god with a 'new religion' then how do we know Mohammed was not, and can we say Joseph Smith was deluded but Moses simply was not. I gave lots of other pointers.

We didn't argue, which was rarity when I was religious. I was surprised that this time he listened to me share, he never did before with genuine concentration.

I also was blunt in some areas on how I felt we were suckered into following a second cult. I shared some things I had heard the person say to me and things that same person told my siblings.

For example this person believed that the Fallen Angels created dinosaurs for a food source and that god did not create them.... This she told my younger siblings without anyone knowing until my younger brother told me months later. I had always been afraid to speak up against her as she labeled herself a prophet of god and that god spoke through her and she was 100% in tune with him. Becoming an Atheist freed me from that fear, I could finally speak up. It made my dad think.

In general my dad is thinking for himself (I hope) concerning the people he's been involved with, but he still firmly believes in god as he says he's seen things that makes him believe. Such as praying for a car and at the last minute a car winds up available for him to use. I'm new to this so I can't explain it other than it being a really odd occurrence that it was the exact same colour as what he felt it would be.

We talked a long time, and before I went to bed I said to him.

"You know, what's the cause of most conflict in this world?" Religion."

Then I gave a few examples of our relationship as a father and son. I know my dad had always wished us to have a good relationship, be good friends and have fun together. It never happened. I was a rebellious kid who wanted nothing to do with him. Later when I found my very religious self I still wanted nothing to do with him. Why? It was because of religion. I felt he was bossy, controlling, no fun, and existed only to yell at me and hand out spankings when I broke the rules. Growing up I felt I had a relationship with god so I figured as I had the one who knew it all on my side I didn't need my dad so I looked down on him with a lot of anger and resentment for the past. He in turn was so religiously bound that he banned me from sports, and was generally no fun to be around. I was honest and said, you know, most of those people you see who don't have as many issues between them as father and son, either have little to no religion.
I took my point further to elaborate on the huge conflict he and my sister had when she felt she was hearing god to do so and so, or that something was to happen. When my dad knew she was in error he tried to reason with her but she was adamant and would not listen. When it didn't turn out the way it was supposed to she would feel she failed god and be a mess for a long time. Then after weeks of soul searching one day she'd be up and beaming with a new "message". I told him that none of that would have happened if there was no religion. How can god say one thing to a person but say differently to another person.

I also shared that after becoming an Atheist I was no longer as angry as I was. I was less angry at him (my dad) and had no anger toward god because he simply does not exist and I cannot be angry at something that is not there.

The next morning before I went back home my dad came and said that he had more questions and would like to talk more another day. I said sure and that I'd be back on Monday as I have another vocational placement nearby.

We left it at that.
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  #26  
Old 26th April 2013, 04:12 PM
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Good on you, FTRF!
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  #27  
Old 26th April 2013, 05:01 PM
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FRTF,

Hooray for you mate!!! I'm very pleased indeed, as I'm sure everyone else is.

Good work, your honesty and bravery are wonderful!
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  #28  
Old 26th April 2013, 05:15 PM
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fromthericefields,

I am amazed at the depth, scope, and subtlety of the discussion you had with your father. I admit ignorance about this topic but thought that signing must be somewhat limiting when trying to express complex ideas. Do you lip read and speak? Your father must be very adept also which speaks well of him regarding his commitment to you.

Yours is a fascinating story. Thank you so much for sharing with us.
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  #29  
Old 26th April 2013, 06:06 PM
EvilDRMike EvilDRMike is offline
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Well done fromthericefields I am so pleased this seems to be working out so well for you.

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  #30  
Old 27th April 2013, 06:17 AM
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fromthericefields fromthericefields is offline
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Default Re: Scared

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Sten said View Post
fromthericefields,

I am amazed at the depth, scope, and subtlety of the discussion you had with your father. I admit ignorance about this topic but thought that signing must be somewhat limiting when trying to express complex ideas. Do you lip read and speak? Your father must be very adept also which speaks well of him regarding his commitment to you.
Well my father is deaf, my mother is hearing. My sister is hearing youngest sister is deaf, and my brother is hearing.

Yes I can speak 95 percent normal I am fully capable of making the correct phonic sounds (although I had trouble with s, f, z, c, and k) when I was younger. I just tend to take words at face value and in their literal form and mispronounce things until corrected.

For example I used to pronounce lyrics [lie-ricks] before being corrected that it was [lir-rics]. It doesn't do much other than make me feel like an idiot.

I've got my mom to thank I guess, she, for religious purposes, home-schooled (non-schooling style) me. I missed out on the social aspect of school, but I did learn to speak, and due to my childhood love of reading (most notably the Hardy Boy Series) and writing my I wager my English skills aren't too bad.

I think I just need to show my family that being an atheist does not mean I become immoral or a bad person. I'm not about to become a drunk rapist, start stealing, and kill people. I was planning and will be making an extra effort to get into University. I've got plans for the future, and will make extra effort, to deal with the shit in my life that I've got trailing behind me.

I am responsible and accountable for my actions alone.
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