Climate change, economics, politics

[bundybear]

Originally Posted by riddlemethis

Well, well, well. And I don't mean 3 holes in the ground either. THIS is what happens when people are actually too stupid to vote. To the Freakytown crew, get the fuck outta dodge while you still can because I'd reckon your right to assembly is about to be rescinded & those piss ups of yours will land you in jail.

What a disgraceful mess.

Must be hard to have to suffer democracy, with such an arrogant attitude as yours. Fancy, that 56% of Queenslands population are now "too stupid" to vote.

Puke, mate. Just because they voted for someone you don't like, doesn't make anyone stupid. Perhaps it is those who continue to vote for obscene government waste, overbearing green-tape and regional development down the toilet....just to name a few.

But that doesn't matter, we can always say they are all "creationists".....

[gibreel farishta]

Agree with you bundy the labor govt had been in too long.
The debts were piling up.
I believe that a lot of same sex couples were relieved that Newman did not abolish civil unions, only state sanctioned ceremonies of such.

Even though Newman announced that the office of climate change would be abolished 24 hours before the election I do not think it would have made much difference,

Living close to Andrew Powell's ( Minister for climate change science and policy) electorate I have been able to target him personally in local papers, He seems to be laying low though and has not yet replied. with live in hope, We need to get him to obtain a briefing from QCCE at least.

Do not agree with you however about the green tape, have you read the bill?
many safeguards abolished, even the requirement to inform locals is now at the discretion of the minister. One application can now cover many different operations. It was like handing clive palmer a black texta and telling him to black out whatever he liked.

The bigger battle will come next year when Abbott takes over, FECK

[riddlemethis]

Originally Posted by bundybear

Must be hard to have to suffer democracy, with such an arrogant attitude as yours. Fancy, that 56% of Queenslands population are now "too stupid" to vote.

Puke, mate. Just because they voted for someone you don't like, doesn't make anyone stupid. Perhaps it is those who continue to vote for obscene government waste, overbearing green-tape and regional development down the toilet....just to name a few.

But that doesn't matter, we can always say they are all "creationists".....

S'orrite. Don't be jealous. In the southern states we've got Faillieu & O'Fail respectively, selling shit off in true robber baron style, true to their conservative roots which are just fucking sure we don't need all these pesky public servants & governments should be run *just* like a fortune 500 company. All because apparently we too fell for the 'ZOMGs teh debtz, we'll orrrlll be rooooned' style politics (never mind that it's serviceable, funding massive infrastructure & negligible against balance of trade). At least we don't have to suffer the additional insult of having civil liberties wound back. Yet.

[bundybear]

Originally Posted by riddlemethis

S'orrite. Don't be jealous. In the southern states we've got Faillieu & O'Fail respectively, selling shit off in true robber baron style, true to their conservative roots which are just fucking sure we don't need all these pesky public servants & governments should be run *just* like a fortune 500 company. All because apparently we too fell for the 'ZOMGs teh debtz, we'll orrrlll be rooooned' style politics (never mind that it's serviceable, funding massive infrastructure & negligible against balance of trade). At least we don't have to suffer the additional insult of having civil liberties wound back. Yet.

Selling shit off in true robber baron style generally occurs when:
1) Labour has managed to "n-debtz" themselves to the hilt and they need to make the books look better....Qld Rail is one example.
2) Liberals have to pay off the Labour debt...ample evidence that the Libs spend the first two terms trimming the fat, making the public service effective again and reducing extraordinary levels of waste and inefficiency.

You clearly don't have enough understanding regarding the problems of bad economics: debt used to fund operational inefficiences. The term, good money after bad rings a bell. You should try and not context shift when you are making claims regarding debt levels.

Productive infrastructure should be funded. Operational inefficiency should not.

So far, there seems to be no encroachment on Civil Liberties from the new Liberal State governments. I am mildly disappointed that Qld LNP felt the need to bow to the Christian Lobby to remove the state sanctioned ceremony for Same-Gender marriage, but they maintained most the of the legislation. I will be the first to write to my MP regarding problems with Civil Liberties...I don't see labour federal support for same sex marriage...conveniently overlooked, perhaps?

...but I see you fail to mention the proposed licensing of media by the Federal Labour government, the threat to journalists(or anyone in fact) who happen to offend someone and the general malais in the left media that you can't be balanced if you don't share their opinion...oh and the massive internet censorship filter Conroy and Labour proposed that hasn't been killed, just gone quiet.

...sniff sniff...there is a stench of hypocrisy in the air...

[loubert]

Originally Posted by bundybear

2) Liberals have to pay off the Labour debt...ample evidence that the Libs spend the first two terms trimming the fat, making the public service effective again and reducing extraordinary levels of waste and inefficiency.

got proof on that? seems to be a very broad brush stroke.

Originally Posted by bundybear

...but I see you fail to mention the proposed licensing of media by the Federal Labour government, the threat to journalists(or anyone in fact) who happen to offend someone and the general malais in the left media that you can't be balanced if you don't share their opinion...oh and the massive internet censorship filter Conroy and Labour proposed that hasn't been killed, just gone quiet.

got a link?
also there has been discussion about the filter here on this forum.

[riddlemethis]

I'll start with something remedial for you bundybear, just to put our 'debt crisis' into perspective for you. http://investment-income.net/austral...or-income.html


And note again the governments are neither individuals nor fortune 500 companies. Balancing your cheque book has nothing to do with how a country ought to be managed. I'm looking forward to your academic sources to demonstrate how our current levels of debt are a problem in terms of appropriate economic management & why instead we ought to be longing for another stint of being over taxed and having the government save that tax in a war-chest, while public infrastructure & services wither on the vine.

[gibreel farishta]

There is little to be gained from tit for tat political debate when the reality is that the LNP will serve out the next three terms,

We have to work with what we have, recognise achievements as well as speaking out against failures,

Open letter to Andrew Powell, QLD. Minister for climate change science and policy.
The "Can Do Costing And Savings Strategy" paper justifies the cancellation of over 50 Queensland Office Of Climate Change, mitigation strategies (source; Can Do paper ) based solely on the independent Productivity Commission's 2008 submission to the Garnaut Climate Change Review 2008/2009, which states "With an effective ETS, much of the current patchwork
of climate change policies by state and local governments will become redundant and there will only be a residual role for state, territory and local government initiatives.

Firstly, your justification was nothing more than a submission to the 2008 Garnaut Review.
Secondly there is no effective or otherwise ETS yet established and not likely to be until 2015 at least.
We would not even be able to judge it's effectiveness for twelve months after it's instigation. You however have judged that it is effective already?. It would appear that the Queensland government had made up it's mind to cancel all state mitigation strategies first and then went looking for any justification they might find for that decision, There is no effective ETS in place Andrew Powell, so your justification for canceling all mitigation strategies in 2012 is without any foundation based on the current reality.

[DezinerAU]

Originally Posted by bundybear

I don't see labour federal support for same sex marriage...conveniently overlooked, perhaps?

Seems you are just as ignorant of the state of affairs as everybody else. Gillard might not support marriage equality, but she is not the Labor party. At the last caucus Labor as a whole voted to support marriage equality, giving it a conscience vote whenever it ends up in parliament. And it will be introduced. Sure, it will be defeated, but the opposition isn't giving their MPs the choice of conscience.

So yes, there is definitely a distinction on this matter between the two parties.

Not that it matters. Just because Labor isn't going out all guns blazing doesn't mean we can forgive the LNP for their bigotry.

...but I see you fail to mention the proposed licensing of media by the Federal Labour government, the threat to journalists(or anyone in fact) who happen to offend someone and the general malais in the left media that you can't be balanced if you don't share their opinion...oh and the massive internet censorship filter Conroy and Labour proposed that hasn't been killed, just gone quiet.

Conservatives are only worried about legislating for offence whenever it's something they don't agree with (see: aboriginals and gays). As can be seen here in Queensland, they'll bend over backwards to legislate to avoid offence when it comes to Christianity or any other ideology THEY believe in ("offence" is precisely the word Newman used for his justification for changing the civil union legislation).

[Fromm_Nicht]

Originally Posted by bundybear

Must be hard to have to suffer democracy....Fancy, that 56% of Queenslands population are now "too stupid" to vote.

Actually the LNP only achieved 49.65% of the vote. From this they were awarded over 85% of the seats, hardly democratic is it?

Originally Posted by bundybear

with such an arrogant attitude as yours

Indeed.

[bundybear]

Originally Posted by Fromm_Nicht

Actually the LNP only achieved 49.65% of the vote. From this they were awarded over 85% of the seats, hardly democratic is it?

Is that the primary vote, or two party preferred? I suspect the actual difference between the preferred vote count and the number of seats is much less than you present. Linky for data?

Not sure what you are suggesting regarding the outcome. If you are quoting a primary vote figure of 49.65 and comparing that to an actual seat count, which is based on a preferential outcome, that would be an erroneous analysis. Comparing primary votes to a preferential outcome fails to consider preferences from all other parties that would flow to the leading party.

The system works the same for both sides of politics. In fact, there is a demographic gerrymander in Brisbane that favours Labour (or any incumbent government that supports a large public service), so Labour has had a favourable run by favouring Brisbane for its public service spending.

It all works out in the end...we just have to abide by the Democratic system...and keep trying to make it as fair as possible.