Symbols

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by Inedifix

Really?

You're looking for a "secular" symbol for two of the Christian "Cardinal Virtues"?

Methinks I smell rodentus disingenuous.

So because I believe in Christ everything has to be a cross?

You can keep your box, I don't fit.

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by vacuous o'possum

Jerry? Do you have any ink already? I have several tats that mean nothing to anyone but me. Anyone could look at my ink and make assumptions, but I didn't get it for them. I LOVE the idea of a barbell, but that's just me. More importantly, it must mean something to you.

In my highschool days I had some very good, close friends. We were all Wiccan (gasp!), religiously. I kept this a secret from my non-practicing parents who were the source of my unstable home. My friends and I didn't recruit, in fact we were very against evangelism, but wicca was a part of our every day lives. We were normal kids doing normal things, only the religious practices and prayers were different.

I didn't subscribe to any faith because I thought some literal god-being in the sky I couldn't see/hear was real. The religion became a surrogate parent of sorts, providing standards of conduct, examples of character and expecting specific reasonable, practical goals. For me, religion is a tool making up for where my parent's failed (so when atheists mock me for having faith, they are essentially mocking a human for wanting a stable parent).

As an otherwise normal guy with an anger problem, Wicca taught me how to focus my emotions with the use of symbols. There is nothing inherently 'magical' about any pendant or talisman or spell, at all. The item itself is and always will be an inanimate object. It's all a mind game to focus intent to guide action. I just call the item a 'focus', because my relationship to the item is just me focusing on an idea.

After converting years later to Christianity, I had to give up the symbols most powerful to me: the hammer of Thor and the runic alphabet.

The only real 'focus' I've ever derived out of Christianity is also the most powerful 'focus' I've every had: my wedding ring. With the love of a woman of character, a man can endure, and do, anything.

Then the day came when I got divorced. After the dust settled I gave her my ring back, forgave her for everything and wished her a happy life.

So here I am, looking for another 'focus', because I've learned to use them so well. In fact, I nearly joined the United States Marine Corps over the US Army due to stronger symbology; that Marines call the 'spirit of the Corps'. The 8-pointed cross representing the 4 cardinal virtues doesn't 'do it' for me because I'm not Catholic. The crucifix itself is originally a symbol of shame (which is why it was used for executions).

So far the best symbol I've come across is the Native 'American medicine wheel; Shaman describe the symbol as inherent to all men, no faith or religion required. the medicine wheel does not require or imply to the observer a subscription to any given faith, deity or religion.

So that's where I am on the issue. Any suggestion is welcome

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by Protium

No I would be mocking someone who believes in something with no evidence and wonder which other aspects of their daily life they would get away with such irrational behaviour.

I apologize for offending you. It was not my intention.

You know your motivations and nothing any anon says in any discussion forum, to include myself, changes you. Be at peace with the confidence that the internet is not real, what is said here can not change you, and someone being wrong in your eyes does is not the end of the world.

Posts which are on topic with OP in the search for secular symbols are welcome.

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black

While I would hope they mocked the faith itself rather than the person, I must point out you are constructing a strawman by assuming the motivation behind said mockery.

Anyway, all that being said, you're probably old enough and well-informed enough for self-sufficiency by now.

My usual occupation is in construction. As you can imagine I own several different kinds of tools for various applications.

As I have noted above, my approach is that religion is a tool.

How silly it seems to me, therefore, when anyone mocks religion. Such is like mocking a circular saw that makes the cuts it's operator requires, a strange looking tool belt or rig which keeps the smaller tools where the operator needed them to be, or even an apparently strange technique which produces the desired result, just because it's strange.

By atheist logic I am not a self-sufficient individual because I use tools for behavioral self guidance exactly like one would use a map to plan a road trip. Neither am I, then, a self sufficient construction worker since I use tools in my trade instead of only my bare hands.

I accept this and I am comfortable with it, because I know my motivations and I know that nothing any anon says in an online discussion forum, to include you, changes me. You being wrong in my eyes is not the end of the world.

Posts which are on-topic with the OP in the search for secular symbols are always welcome

[Fearless]

Just curious, what do you think about when you read things like:

Leviticus 19:28 – “Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.”

Corinthians 6:19-20 – “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.”

The first suggesting you probably shouldn't have tattoos, the second suggests the body being a sacred temple, it is not really yours to do with what you please, thus you must look after it.

Are your parents against you getting tattoos?

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by Fearless

Just curious, what do you think about when you read things like:

Leviticus 19:28 – “Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.”

I don't 'cut my flesh for the dead'. I don't why I would ever do that.

Originally Posted by Fearless

Corinthians 6:19-20 – “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.”

I accept this as true and take motivation from it.

Originally Posted by Fearless

The first suggesting you probably shouldn't have tattoos....

Not for the dead, anyway.
Having said that, if my sons died tomorrow I might find myself agreeable to a commemorative tattoo.

A subject for a different thread I suppose.

Originally Posted by Fearless

....the second suggests the body being a sacred temple, it is not really yours to do with what you please, thus you must look after it.

Certainly.

Originally Posted by Fearless

Are your parents against you getting tattoos

My father is indifferent, my mother once told me she understands military tattoos. Ultimately, since I'm 34 with 2 sons and serving in the US Army deployed to Afghanistan this year, they don't expect me to come to them for permission generally.

[Fearless]

I was talking more about the second part half of the first passage, about marking the body.

I am being a bit facetious with the parent reference given on the off chance they are opposed to it:

Exodus 20:12 "honor your father and your mother”

If they were against it, would you still do it?

I only ask these questions given I had a conversation once regarding tattoos for religious people and the quoted passages above came up.

I just find it interesting to see if people consider their faith when deciding these things, well the implications.

Ultimately the decision is yours of course. I don't have them but if I were to think about it I guess something incorporating my children comes to mind. I could live with that.

My cousin got a tattoo at 15 with his mothers consent (UK) of a rough looking clown with a pistol in each hand. He hates it now. His sister got a small rose on the top of her breast (visible). She had it lasered off as she had a few bad experiences such as someone walking up to her saying 'my do you look lovely tonight' while deliberately covering up her tattoo with part of her clothing.

I'll be interested to see what you come up with.

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black

Unless you're claiming somebody else wields the hammer, Jerry, you are being self-sufficient.

(Comments which attempt to dictate the conduct of a thread are unusual.)

In my wicca days when we would say we 'took up the hammer' of Thor, the symbolism is the individual wielding the hammer, not Thor wielding it for you. Likewise when Christians say we 'take up the cross', we're bearing it ourselves, no one is holding it for us.

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by Fearless

I was talking more about the second part half of the first passage, about marking the body.

I am being a bit facetious with the parent reference given on the off chance they are opposed to it:

Exodus 20:12 "honor your father and your mother”

If they were against it, would you still do it?

If they were passionately opposed to something like a military tattoo I probably wouldn't, a whimsical tattoo I certainly wouldn't. I don't think it would be worth the family drama, especially if it's a tattoo I would come to regret in time. A more serious tattoo, such a the death of a child or surviving cancer, may be worth the drama.

Originally Posted by Fearless

I only ask these questions given I had a conversation once regarding tattoos for religious people and the quoted passages above came up.

My best friend in the service is very Catholic. His whole family fits the stereotype (non are clergy so your children are safe). On his back he has a tattoo of the crucifix with 'Jesus' in stylized lettering incorporated into the design. It's actually a very professionally don piece of art, imo.

I asked him once if his tattoo was a sin. He said he didn't see how worshiping God could ever be a sin, so if he was wrong for getting it then he would take his lashings without complaint.

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black

Yeah: what I mean is that you're doing the lifting, and Occam's Razor says the god part is not needed.

Hence a thread looking for a secular symbol.