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  #691  
Old 10th March 2012, 02:34 PM
jireh jireh is offline
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Default Re: Please present a compelling explanation why naturalism is true

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Originally Posted by Darwinsbulldog View Post
Many of them are even intellectually honest enough to recognise evolution as a fact and evolutionary theory as valid science.
so do i. micro evolution is a fact.....
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  #692  
Old 10th March 2012, 02:38 PM
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Default Re: Please present a compelling explanation why naturalism is true

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Originally Posted by jireh View Post
how about you show why the probability numbers are not compelling ?
jireh . . . read.my.lips. Your probability link is irrelevant! Shit! Am I to take it that you don't even read the stuff you are copy/pasting?

Pick up the gauntlet - or retract your post at #225!
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  #693  
Old 10th March 2012, 02:38 PM
jireh jireh is offline
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Originally Posted by davo View Post
The largest slave trade, the Atlantic slave trade was created by Christians, colonial powers such as France, Spain, Great Britain and Portugal - whose explorers were colonizing the New World and needed a steady stream of labor to work their mines and their plantations. The incredibly religious southern states of the US justified slavery as the will of god, millions of men, women and children bound by the curse of Ham.

http://www.slaverysite.com/Body/morality.htm

I should have been explicit it reference to the largest slave trade, of course slavery has been around well before christianity, however undoubtably 'the good book' has been used to justify slavery right up to very recently.

And don't forget slavery was abolished in France in 1791, not by the church, but by the atheistic founders of the revolution. In the United States, the early critics of slavery - Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and John Quincy Adams - were all either atheists or deists. Later, the abolitionist cause was taken up by Ralph Waldo Emerson, a Unitarian minister turned atheist; William Lloyd Garrison, an atheist; and Robert Ingersoll, the "Great Agnostic." Indeed, the "Great Emancipator" himself, Abraham Lincoln, never acknowledged being a Christian and was (at the very least) thought to be a freethinker in matters of religion. In England, atheists Jeremy Bentham and John Stuart Mill were leading abolitionists.

Atheists and freethinkers of all stripes worked closely with progressive Christians to abolish slavery and to fully extend voting and civil rights to African-Americans.

All this while slavery's main religious supporters justified the division via the curse of ham, directly from the bible
http://www.christianaction.org.za/ar...eofslavery.htm


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Jesus revolutionised labour. By taking up the axe, the saw, the hammer and the plane, our Lord endued labour with a new dignity. Christianity undercut slavery by giving dignity to work. By reforming work, Christianity transformed the entire social order.

Our Lord Jesus Christ began His ministry in Nazareth with these words: "The Spirit of the Lord is on Me.to proclaim freedom for the prisoners.and release to the oppressed." Luke 4:18

When the apostle Paul wrote to Philemon, concerning his escaped slave, he urged him to welcome back Onesimus "no longer as a slave, but.as a dear brother.as a man and as a brother in the Lord." Philemon 16.

Because of these and other Scriptural commands to love our neighbour, to be a good Samaritan and to do for others what you would want them to do for you, Christians like William Wilberforce, John Newton, William Carey, David Livingstone, Lord Shaftsbury and General Charles Gordon worked tirelessly to end the slave trade, stop child labour, and set the captives free.

From the very beginning of the Christian Church, Christians freed slaves. During the 2nd and 3rd Centuries many tens of thousands of slaves were freed by people who converted to Christ. St. Melania was said to have emancipated 8000 slaves, St. Ovidius freed 5000, Chromatius freed 1400, Hermes 1200. Many of the Christian clergy at Hippo under St. Augustine "freed their slaves as an act of piety." In AD315, the Emperor Constantine, just two years after he issued the edict of Milan, legalising Christianity, imposed the death penalty on those who stole children to bring them up as slaves.

The Emperor Justinian abolished all laws that prevented the freeing of slaves. St. Augustine (354 - 430) saw slavery as the product of sin and as contrary to God's Divine plan (The City of God). St. Chrysostom in the 4th Century, taught that when Christ came He annulled slavery. He proclaimed "in Christ Jesus there is no slave.therefore it is not necessary to have a slave.buy them, and after you have taught them some skill by which they can maintain themselves, set them free."

For centuries, throughout the Middle Ages, bishops and church councils recommended the redemption of captive slaves, and for five centuries the Trinitarian monks redeemed Christian slaves from Moorish (Muslim) servitude.
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  #694  
Old 10th March 2012, 02:39 PM
jireh jireh is offline
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Default Re: Please present a compelling explanation why naturalism is true

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Originally Posted by Atrax Robustus View Post
jireh . . . read.my.lips. Your probability link is irrelevant! Shit! Am I to take it that you don't even read the stuff you are copy/pasting?

Pick up the gauntlet - or retract your post at #225!
so, why is it irrelevant ? the explanation, please.
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  #695  
Old 10th March 2012, 02:40 PM
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Default Re: Please present a compelling explanation why naturalism is true

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Originally Posted by jireh View Post
i changed my mind. anything wrong with that ? i am giving some australia atheists the oportunity to revise their atheistic belief system, so they might realise how incredibly baseless their belief system actually is......
So you are using 'belief system' to stir or troll for an emotional response. It detracts from your arguments when you attempt to be deliberately ignorant of those you are trying to convince. Either that or you clearly don't even know (or want to know) what atheism actually is. Are you trolling for your own satisfaction or in hope that your god finds it amusing?
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  #696  
Old 10th March 2012, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jireh View Post
so do i. micro evolution is a fact.....
So what is the barrier that stops speciation and further deviation that is macroevolution Jireh?
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  #697  
Old 10th March 2012, 02:44 PM
jireh jireh is offline
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Default Re: Please present a compelling explanation why naturalism is true

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Originally Posted by Atrax Robustus View Post
You're still digging I see!

Time to call your bluff - AGAIN.

Please describe to the members of this forum (and all who will read this thread into the future) one moral act that you as a believer in God can perform that an atheist cannot.
your question is irrelevant.

I can be moral, because i believe God exists,and as a perfect moral giver, and morally perfect being, he is the legislator of morals, and i can live moral laws, and commands. He can set the rules, upon we shall live.

the atheist denies that a morally perfect God exists, and that this being prescribes morals. Therefore, whatever someone sets and believe is desirable, he can do, without anyone being able to say , this or that is bad. you can say its tabu to rape a neighbors wife, because that causes harm and pain to the victim, but there is nothing, that you can objectively say, that this is morally wrong. If a objective moral giver does not exist, no objective moral standard exists, and you can justify whatever you do. There is nobody above you to tell you, you are wrong.
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  #698  
Old 10th March 2012, 02:45 PM
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Default Re: Please present a compelling explanation why naturalism is true

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Originally Posted by jireh View Post
so, why is it irrelevant ? the explanation, please.
Humour me. Explain why YOU think that the link was relevant?
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  #699  
Old 10th March 2012, 02:46 PM
jireh jireh is offline
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Default Re: Please present a compelling explanation why naturalism is true

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Originally Posted by Fearless View Post
So you are using 'belief system' to stir or troll for an emotional response. It detracts from your arguments when you attempt to be deliberately ignorant of those you are trying to convince. Either that or you clearly don't even know (or want to know) what atheism actually is. Are you trolling for your own satisfaction or in hope that your god finds it amusing?
what does strong atheism stand for ? what does it postulate ?
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  #700  
Old 10th March 2012, 02:55 PM
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Atrax Robustus Atrax Robustus is offline
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Default Re: Please present a compelling explanation why naturalism is true

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Originally Posted by jireh View Post
If a objective moral giver does not exist, no objective moral standard exists, and you can justify whatever you do. There is nobody above you to tell you, you are wrong.
Nobody above me to tell me I'm wrong?

Think about things before you start typing jireh!

Or do you live under the control of a theocracy wherever you are? Let's call your town/country Jirehworld? Are criminals in Jirehworld judged guilty by priests and their punishments awarded after reference to the bible?

I doubt it - you're a christian. I suspect therefore, that atheists in Jirehworld are subject to the same laws that you as a christian are also required to comply with --- laws that have been developed without reference to ANY holy scripture.

Those secular courts and government are the body above you that will tell you that you are wrong - are they not?
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