Please present a compelling explanation why naturalism is true

[Logic please]

Hello jireh. You wouldn't be avoiding me, would you?

Because that'd be pretty rude if so, wouldn't it?

EDIT: gazumped, jireh finally noticed me.

[jireh]

Originally Posted by Xeno

That is wonderful to know. That means you can name those which would convince you to kill some one. So? How would you know you had been asked by god to kill someone?

Edit: If you were to repeat that you do not know how you would be convinced, then in fact your answer is No, you would not kill for your god because you would not be in a position to know you were being told.

God told Abraham to kill his son. Abraham had no doubt, God was talking to him. God has the ability to talk to us in a way that is clear enough for us to understand, its Gods voice talking to us.

[jireh]

Originally Posted by THWOTH

So, again, what is an absolute moral right or good Mr Jireh?
;

whatever God presents as a correct set of behavior, rules and commands, represents objective moral values.

[Logic please]

Originally Posted by jireh

i have said nothing about " hearing voices ". I start from the pressuposition that Gods will is always absolutely perfect and right, and if he commands us to do something specific, even if we do not agree or understand what the purpose is, we trust God, that he knows better than we do, what is the best decision in certain circumstances.

Excellent. So, if not by hearing voices... how the fuck would you know, or confirm, what your god is allegedly commanding???

No answer for the rest of my post, either?

[jireh]

Originally Posted by Inedifix

So you're basically saying: "show me the evidence, but I won't read the evidence."

I'm sorry Jireh, but the large and growing body of evidence that supports the theory that RNA predated DNA requires being read. Read the work (not all of it is prohibitively long) and you will see:

1. Incontrovertible proof that DNA does not work without RNA.
2. Considerable evidence that RNA must have been a precursor to DNA.
3. Laboratory experiments that actually replicate the process of RNA evolving into DNA. (Esp see this article about one such experiment: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0327083737.htm)

This does not constitute absolute proof that this is the way it happened - science doesn't work like that - but it IS evidence that supports the evolution of DNA via a natural process.

these are all GUIDED processes through intelligence..... these do not constitute evidence at all. Even RNA , if it predates DNA, does not solve the problem of abiogenesis. The problem of where the information stored in RNA came from, remains.

[Darwinsbulldog]

Originally Posted by jireh

these are all GUIDED processes through intelligence..... these do not constitute evidence at all. Even RNA , if it predates DNA, does not solve the problem of abiogenesis. The problem of where the information stored in RNA came from, remains.

Bollocks! I told you, the environment.
This happens every day, every fucking second in your immune system. Your body does not have a fucking clue what a virus looks like before it enters your body. So it makes millions of different shaped molecules. Chances are, one of them [these antibodies] will fit the antigen [virus or other foreign molecule], then the winner gets cloned by the billion. It is more complicated than that, but that is the basic process. Less brain farts, more thinking.

[jireh]

Originally Posted by Inedifix

Oh, you mean like this guy.

Or this guy.

To name but two.

well, basically i believe that God has left us his word , the bible , to follow. There nowhere it says we should kill homosexuals, or unbelievers , or any sort of people that do not do God's will. We are asked to love each other, even our enemies, and pray for them.

[jireh]

Originally Posted by Darwinsbulldog

Bollocks! I told you, the environment.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...e-really-a-god

Some scientists and educators have tried to get around the above problems by speculating that as long as all the chemicals that make up the molecule of heredity (and the information it contains) came together at some time in the past, then life could have begun.
Life is built upon information. In fact, in just one of the trillions of cells that make up the human body, the amount of information in its genes would fill at least 1,000 books of 500 pages of typewritten information. Scientists now think this is hugely underestimated.
Where did all this information come from? Some try to explain it this way: imagine a professor taking all the letters of the alphabet, A–Z, and placing them in a hat. He then passes the hat around to students of his class and asks each to randomly select a letter.
It is easy for us to see the possibility (no matter how remote it seems) of three students in a row selecting B then A and finally T. Put these three letters together and they spell a word—BAT. Thus, the professor concludes, given enough time, no matter how improbable it seems, there is always the possibility one could form a series of words that make a sentence, and eventually compile an encyclopedia. The students are then led to believe that no intelligence is necessary in the evolution of life from chemicals. As long as the molecules came together in the right order for such compounds as DNA, then life could have begun.
On the surface, this sounds like a logical argument. However, there is a basic, fatal flaw in this analogy. The sequence of letters, B-A-T, is a word to whom? Someone who speaks English, Dutch, French, German, or Chinese? It is a word only to someone who knows the language. In other words, the order of letters is meaningless unless there is a language system and a translation system already in place to make the order meaningful.
In the DNA of a cell, the order of its molecules is also meaningless, except that in the biochemistry of a cell, there is a language system (other molecules) that makes the order meaningful. DNA without the language system is meaningless, and the language system without the DNA wouldn’t work either. The other complication is that the language system that reads the order of the molecules in the DNA is itself specified by the DNA. This is another one of those “machines” that must already be in existence and fully formed, or life won’t work!

[jireh]

Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black

So the old testament is not canon, Jireh?

did i say that somewhere ?

[Darwinsbulldog]

Originally Posted by jireh

http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...e-really-a-god

Total bollocks. You can't compare a modern cell that has experienced nearly four fucking billion years of evolution with the first proto-cell.. Thanks for the quote, we now know where you get some of your idiotic notions from.