Bit of a hippy...

[mysteryspirit]

And so it begins...

You all appear to be like cats given a mouse to play with, or a Kiddy fiddler given a mr whippy van...

Infestation? Strong word. Am I to be exterminated? Or just alternative opinions?

'Beyond the physical'? Something that can't or hasn't been observed or measured by people or science. People can sense their environment through sight and sound etc but aren't aware of everything that goes on in the universe. Science has done much to open up our understanding of the universe but there is much it cant explain. Sure, there is much science yet to be done and it may prove conclusively that God is rubbish. But then again whos to say that it wont prove that there is a God? As far as I'm aware science sheds little to no light on properties of dark matter . I'm not saying that ~ 80% of the universe is made up of dead peoples spirits, I'm just making the point that what we are aware of is not the be all and end all.

"Are you of the belief that we survive our own death and pop out the other side somewhere?"

Sorry I cant figure out the quote thingy?

Not exactly. I don't have an exact philosophy as I'm sure you've probably already cottoned onto. I don't believe that you continue on after death as an intelligent being. But I do beleive that there is energy associated with life/living that isn't contained within the body and may exist seperate from a living organism. I am aware I cannot point to evidence that any of this actually occurs, but nor can anyone prove it doesn't. Hasn't anyone had the feeling that there is more to the world than science? Should the human intuition that there is more which occurs in most cultures be completely disregarded because there is no evidence? Is it so hard to believe that people repeatedly turn to spirituality not just because its an evolutionary biproduct but also because there is some truth to it?

[mysteryspirit]

Didnt mean to offend at all...
My apologies

[Brizrocker]

Was that a Tim Minchin reference? If so you lack his comedic timing...

[Voltairine]

Before we go any further, please can you define "spirituality"? As you see it as I'm sure not everyone would define it the same way.

[dilbadoon]

Originally Posted by mysteryspirit

And so it begins...

You all appear to be like cats given a mouse to play with,

Heh, this may not be too far off, but honestly, what did you expect from an atheist forum!?

Originally Posted by mysteryspirit

Infestation? Strong word. Am I to be exterminated? Or just alternative opinions?

'Beyond the physical'? Something that can't or hasn't been observed or measured by people or science. People can sense their environment through sight and sound etc but aren't aware of everything that goes on in the universe. Science has done much to open up our understanding of the universe but there is much it cant explain. Sure, there is much science yet to be done and it may prove conclusively that God is rubbish. But then again whos to say that it wont prove that there is a God? As far as I'm aware science sheds little to no light on properties of dark matter . I'm not saying that ~ 80% of the universe is made up of dead peoples spirits, I'm just making the point that what we are aware of is not the be all and end all.

Well, I would agree i'm certainly not aware of everything that goes on in the universe, but if it is immeasurable to us, how do you know it's there? What we are aware of and able to measure may not be the end all, but it is all that matters to me. Anything else if immeasurable is by that same fact irrelevant.

Originally Posted by mysteryspirit

"Are you of the belief that we survive our own death and pop out the other side somewhere?"

Sorry I cant figure out the quote thingy?

Not exactly. I don't have an exact philosophy as I'm sure you've probably already cottoned onto. I don't believe that you continue on after death as an intelligent being. But I do beleive that there is energy associated with life/living that isn't contained within the body and may exist seperate from a living organism. I am aware I cannot point to evidence that any of this actually occurs, but nor can anyone prove it doesn't. Hasn't anyone had the feeling that there is more to the world than science? Should the human intuition that there is more which occurs in most cultures be completely disregarded because there is no evidence? Is it so hard to believe that people repeatedly turn to spirituality not just because its an evolutionary biproduct but also because there is some truth to it?

With you not having a philosophy it may make it difficult to discuss. You may believe in this energy, but again by the very definition it would be impossible for you to explain or demonstrate it to me, so until it becomes relevent (ie. real) then why should I bother myself with it? About as much as you probably think about my teapot in space.

[Annie]

Originally Posted by Voltairine

Before we go any further, please can you define "spirituality"? As you see it as I'm sure not everyone would define it the same way.

Seconded. This discussion can go nowhere until we have this established.


Tapa wotsit.

[Sieveboy]

Welcome MysterySpirit to the place where good ideas thrive and bad ideas die.

It's been my experience that spirituality is a cop out word that covers a broad range of rubbish, unsubstantiated ideas best left behind on the road of human development. But happy to change my views when a good reason shows me I should.

[Logic please]

Hi mysteryspirit, hope your time here is worthwhile.

I'd intended to post a welcome, and to reassure you on this point...

Originally Posted by mysteryspirit

I'm no idiot and I promise there won’t be too much brain flatulence.

...ie: that the forum rules specifically prohibit attacks on people, and that only your ideas and evidence would be challenged. Your second post sorta got in the way of that, however.

As you've seen, your abominable, unevidenced and unwarranted imputed slur contained therein, has Not Gone Down Well. And bluntly, I'm not sure there's any circumstance where it would have. I also note that you have subesquently apologised, so moving right along...

Originally Posted by mysteryspirit

Sorry I cant figure out the quote thingy?

Click the button on the relevant post to quote one other poster. Click (it will then change to look like ) on multiple posts, and then at the bottom of the thread page, to quote all of the chosen posts in your reply.

In view of this post:

Originally Posted by mysteryspirit

'Beyond the physical'? Something that can't or hasn't been observed or measured by people or science. People can sense their environment through sight and sound etc but aren't aware of everything that goes on in the universe. Science has done much to open up our understanding of the universe but there is much it cant explain. Sure, there is much science yet to be done and it may prove conclusively that God is rubbish. But then again whos to say that it wont prove that there is a God? As far as I'm aware science sheds little to no light on properties of dark matter . I'm not saying that ~ 80% of the universe is made up of dead peoples spirits, I'm just making the point that what we are aware of is not the be all and end all.

"Are you of the belief that we survive our own death and pop out the other side somewhere?"
...
Not exactly. I don't have an exact philosophy as I'm sure you've probably already cottoned onto. I don't believe that you continue on after death as an intelligent being. But I do beleive that there is energy associated with life/living that isn't contained within the body and may exist seperate from a living organism. I am aware I cannot point to evidence that any of this actually occurs, but nor can anyone prove it doesn't. Hasn't anyone had the feeling that there is more to the world than science? Should the human intuition that there is more which occurs in most cultures be completely disregarded because there is no evidence? Is it so hard to believe that people repeatedly turn to spirituality not just because its an evolutionary biproduct but also because there is some truth to it?

...rather than address specific points at this stage, I merely raise the following for reference (not an exhaustive list ):

Philosophic burden of proof - it is not incumbent upon others to disprove your ontological claims, but for you to evidence them;
Non-overlapping magisteria - the yet-to-be-successful attempts to put the supernatural beyond scientific enquiry. However, even if so, the real-world effects of the supernatural are still open to scientific investigation. And a natural world without those effects, would be different to one with them, no?;
Argument from incredulity - that some aspect of the natural world is currently not fully explained by science, does not of itself give a supernautral explanation any credence;
Argumentum ad populum - many, or a majority of people believing something to be true, doesn't actually make it factually true or correct.

And a closing question: are you aware of any scientific advance or discovery throughout history, that has provided any support for a supernatural explanation?

Over to you. I trust that you'll make good on your committment to welcoming challenge to your ideas...

[Xeno]

Originally Posted by mysteryspirit

You all appear to be like cats given a mouse to play with

The usual image is a turkey pursued by competing tigers. Don't take it to heart, just don't stand too close to the turkey.

'Beyond the physical'? Something that can't or hasn't been observed or measured by people or science. People can sense their environment through sight and sound etc but aren't aware of everything that goes on in the universe. Science has done much to open up our understanding of the universe but there is much it cant explain. Sure, there is much science yet to be done and it may prove conclusively that God is rubbish. But then again whos to say that it wont prove that there is a God? As far as I'm aware science sheds little to no light on properties of dark matter . I'm not saying that ~ 80% of the universe is made up of dead peoples spirits, I'm just making the point that what we are aware of is not the be all and end all.

I mean to help before you should find yourself among the headless. I think there are some issues of logic and evidence on which you should reflect.

That which you do not know does not permit the irrational. That would be a form of god of the gaps.

That which you purport must be falsifiable, or it is useless.

Lack of evidence for god is not disproof of god, nor would evidence for god be proof of god.

More briefly, that which you do not know is not, by virtue of that, something.

[Annie]

Originally Posted by mysteryspirit

I'm just making the point that what we are aware of is not the be all and end all.

So..... What we are not aware of is better?




Tapa wotsit.