Caliope on "spirituality" and "the soul"

[Xeno]

OK, TD, I think we need to be more poetic about the immanence of the immanently immanent.

distant thunder
a smooth river stone
from the clothes line

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

From the distance that be far, in a land which doth beseetheth with good spirituality and mystical belonging:
"Oh Master, Mighty Reptile! Maybe I beguesseth the answer of Caliope, to thou humble mighty question, the "Crocodilemma" as it be knoweth!", quoth the Leprechaun.
"What question doth be this? Repeateth, for it must be heard by all that be believers in the Authoritative God that Cannot be Proven", requesteth the Crocodile.
"O Believer in God, Prithee, shalt thou killeth another of thou kind, if God's request it shalt be?", quoth the Leprachaun.
"Ah", quoth the Reptile. "Music to my ears, shalt a proper answer produce! Recite the answer, dearest Leprachaun!"
"YES!", beguesseth the Leprechaun.
Thus much LSD doth be taken, and many spiritual experiences more did the Reptile and the Leprachaun enjoyeth together!

Caliope: if your god asked you to kill somebody then would you do it? <YES|NO>

[Caliope]

Argument from 'it makes me feel good'? I once took some DMT, and boy, did that feel awesome. I felt all connected to the forest and shit. Still just brain chemistry, though.

No, this is thrills and excitement, this is the carnal substitute that the non spiritual use instead of experiencing the spiritual equivalent which is called Joy.

Joy is the gift given to the soul, when it praises God.

Infact it is the supernatural fruit of praising and glorifying God.

Because the soul was created for the purpose of praising and glorifying God, when it finds itself fulfilling that purpose for which it was created from all eternity it is filled with Joy.

See an authentic spiritual experience is mostly with out tangible sensations of the body like drugged states. In fact drugging can open up the soul to preternatural forces, the thing you don't want.

[Jaar-Gilon]

It is a matter of logic that existence is a special predicate of things that exist, ie., something that exists has the property of existing. Although a tautology it is none the less true. Immaterial however is much more daunting as a concept. "Immaterial thing" is an oxymoron. Something immaterial (again an oxymoron but it's the only way to speak about "god", as an oxymoron) can have only one property and that is it is immaterial. Conversely things that exist cannot have the property of being immaterial. Something made of nothing cannot be heavy, shaped, coloured, have velocity, interact.......you get my drift. In fact immaterial is the privative of material that is the "im" is the negation of the root so saying "not made of anything" is literally saying it is no thing and the only place you can find no thing is literally nowhere.

So if existence is a property but immaterial things can only have one property being made of nothing then immaterial things can't have the property of existence. That is simply, immaterial things do not exist. An immaterial god does not exist, can not exist.

[Caliope]

Originally Posted by Crocodile

From the distance that be far, in a land which doth beseetheth with good spirituality and mystical belonging:
"Oh Master, Mighty Reptile! Maybe I beguesseth the answer of Caliope, to thou humble mighty question, the "Crocodilemma" as it be knoweth!", quoth the Leprechaun.
"What question doth be this? Repeateth, for it must be heard by all that be believers in the Authoritative God that Cannot be Proven", requesteth the Crocodile.
"O Believer in God, Prithee, shalt thou killeth another of thou kind, if God's request it shalt be?", quoth the Leprachaun.
"Ah", quoth the Reptile. "Music to my ears, shalt a proper answer produce! Recite the answer, dearest Leprachaun!"
"YES!", beguesseth the Leprechaun.
Thus much LSD doth be taken, and many spiritual experiences more did the Reptile and the Leprachaun enjoyeth together!

Caliope: if your god asked you to kill somebody then would you do it? <YES|NO>

My God would not ask me to do such a thing.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Originally Posted by Caliope

My God would not ask me to do such a thing.

Yes he would. And he does.

Now if your god asked you to kill somebody then would you do it? <YES|NO>

Come on, it isn't that hard! My best friend who is a Christian had absolutely no trouble answering that.

[Xeno]

Originally Posted by Caliope

Because the soul was created for the purpose of praising and glorifying God, when it finds itself fulfilling that purpose for which it was created from all eternity it is filled with Joy.

If god wants to make souls to praise him to make him and them joyful, why did he not give souls to beetles? There are more of them and god would be even happier. Never mind. Here's another haiku.

a piercing cry
the widow retrieves a sheet
sun on thunderheads

Now,

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Caliope: if your god asked you to kill somebody then would you do it? <YES|NO>

He does ask people to do such a thing in the bible, and they do it, or get punished for refusal. So, how do you know he would not? Do you presume to limit your god, or have you grasped that your god is your invention, limited by your obviously superior human morality?

[Cosmic Teapot]

Originally Posted by Caliope

Yes, but God does not just interact in the natural and material world, He actually holds it in existence.

As we put it in spiritual terms " I him we live and move and have our being"

It's not so much that everything would fall to pieces without God, it's more that everything would actually cease to exist without him. Because everything proceeds from him.

First you claim that god/the soul can't be detected by scientific means because they occupy an intangible "spiritual" plane of existence, then say that god is the very foundation of the physical universe. If he is the essential ingredient for our physical reality to function and science investigates how the physical universe functions, how can his presence be undectable? That's like claiming the ground you stand on occupies a spiritual realm and you can't possibly measure it's properties. Forget god, I want you to prove you're capable of producing a rational thought.

Originally Posted by Caliope

I was given this by seeing it's reality spiritually, it is by insight or better awareness.
You become aware light is a person, and energy is a person, and love is a person.

It is very confronting to be aware of a person when you first enter the spiritual world, a person who is at once strange, but also very familiar. But He is a distinct Person who is timeless and absolute.

It is very hard to explain to someone who has no spiritual life, but exists in a carnal tangible reality.
But I'll try to elaborate further if you have other questions.
Forgive me if I'm not explaining it properly.

No, you're explaining it properly; the fault is in the concept. If you can't adequately explain something to someone who doesn't already believe in it, chances are it relies on presupposition and is full of logical fallacies. You can't explain it to us so it makes sense because it doesn't make sense. Like they say; you can't polish a turd.



Sent from my Motorola Xoom because I'm too geeky for my own good.

[Logic]

Originally Posted by wolty

I am sure there are some redeeming qualities in there, we just need to coax them out somehow. It would seem logic won't work though.

I haven't had a good crack at it yet

[Xeno]

I never have been told about those "christian values" but mine is only one in the conga line of unanswered questions.