A question for any Christians who still uses the morality argument

[josh.nolan1995]

I know that this argument has been debunked many times, but i still hear numerous christians attempting to say that without a god where do u get your morality. This question has been answered countless times so instead I want to ask u christians a question. "Assuming you are a caring, compassionate human beings, u believe its wrong to stone people to death for such things as homosexuality, being an athiest and working on the sabbath. But the bible states this as ok, in fact its a sin not to. So my question is where did you get these moralities, if not from god?" (and dont try and tell me god gave a message to christians later saying these things are wrong, because an all knowing, all powerful god would have thougt to include it in its perfect bible, that "you only have to follow my rules until you feel your morals say otherwise")

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[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Welcome aboarrrrd Josh! Good luck trying to get answers, I've been asking a few of such questions myself. The thread title bought me here as a result of interest.

My favorite is this:

If your god asked you to kill somebody then would you do it? (YES/NO)

Best used on those who have monotheistic (ie. "One True God") beliefs; may/may not be adjusted for other gods by replacing "god" with "gods" in the question.

Remember when asking this quesiton remember to make sure the theist does not answer anything other than "YES" or "NO" - if they answer with waffle, "I presume that is a YES?" would be a good response.

Let them know that all you need is a simple YES or NO - not all that waffle.

Note that sometimes you may get lucky and they'll give you a YES or NO without waffle.

When they answer properly, then the fun begins. When they don't, they have not even answered the question.

[Loki]

Hi Josh, welcome.

My take on the morality question is it is simply a dodgy way for xians to justify bigotry against an outgroup.

Doesn't stand up to the most cursory honest investigation.

That won't stop them wibbling on about it though.

[josh.nolan1995]

Haha, yeah i guess ur right guys. the main reason i started the thread is because i noticed that MrMan started a thread using the morality argument only last month. I couldnt believe anyone would still think that was a valid argument. So this was an attempt to find out y?

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Unfortunately the guy is clearly incapable of living up to his name. He has yet to define "objective morality" - it appears he may have been attempting to create new concepts from nowhere and use them to defend his holy book. It also seems he would kill if his god asked him to.

I am not sure I need to define objectionable morality but that is what comes from the bible.

[Logic please]

Hi josh, welcome to the forum.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Note that sometimes you may get lucky and they'll give you a YES or NO without waffle.

A pretty rare event, IME.

Originally Posted by josh.nolan1995

Haha, yeah i guess ur right guys. the main reason i started the thread is because i noticed that MrMan started a thread using the morality argument only last month. I couldnt believe anyone would still think that was a valid argument. So this was an attempt to find out y?

Once you've looked through the thread, you might find that MrMan was not as conversant with his own arguments, as first thought. So what he was actually arguing, is still open to dispute.

And for my views on the "xtian morality" canard... please see my sig below.

[JaxsonBateman]

Actually, the latest episode of "Discovering Religion" (http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/discovering-religion/) explains the whole "secular morality vs christian morality" issue very well.

While I don't want to generalise, typically christians will cherry pick to suit their own ends, as they have their own subjective take on morality within their conscience which is at odds with many things stated as law in the bible (killing adulterers, raping the virgin females of countries you conquer, killing the children of your enemies etc). They claim that it needs to be taken 'in context' despite having been instructed by a perfect creator who made no mention of viewing anything in context.

Of course, let's not get into the dubious origins of the bible...

[Annie]

Frankly the bible is the last place I'd look for guidance and the people who do are the last people I'd ask.
I would sooner examine the behaviour of other social animals such as chimps who are not bound by morals.
In human terms I seek answers to ethical questions. Not moral ones as they are heavily seeped in value judgements whereas ethics concern the greater good or the least harm.


Tapatalking

[Bolero]

I reckon your average theist doesn't think about it much beyond the bullshit they're fed in church. The minister - in a position of authority in God's house - tells them Christian morality is superior, and they think it must be so. No further thought required.

Of course, the more educated they get, the more double-think they have to do, and the more deluded they become as a result. But your average rank-and-file, well, they're just brainwashed, rather than duplicitous or dishonest.