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  #21  
Old 11th July 2011, 08:03 AM
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AUSloth AUSloth is offline
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Default Re: Aboriginal Spirituality - the Atheist perspective?

@ DB- no problem, I agreed with your post.
My point is unfortunately the bollocks (dreamtime) part of the indigenous culture is going to drag the genuine accurate knowledge (umwelt) into oblivion as it clashes with white Australian culture and used the reluctance of the indigenous to use health care as one example of the mechanism.
Relate that back to the thread title and what stands out to me as an atheist is yet another example of a "theology" undermining "science".
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  #22  
Old 11th July 2011, 11:32 AM
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Default Re: Aboriginal Spirituality - the Atheist perspective?

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AUSloth said View Post
@ DB- no problem, I agreed with your post.
My point is unfortunately the bollocks (dreamtime) part of the indigenous culture is going to drag the genuine accurate knowledge (umwelt) into oblivion as it clashes with white Australian culture and used the reluctance of the indigenous to use health care as one example of the mechanism.
Relate that back to the thread title and what stands out to me as an atheist is yet another example of a "theology" undermining "science".
Oh, sorry mate, I misunderstood. Your medical example is an excellent one. Even worse, the aboriginals face a double burden as many have also been converted to Christianity, which further confuses the situation. There is an atheist chap at my partner's workplace who is into science and wants to promote non-spiritual aboriginal culture, but he is not popular amongst his clan for this reason. And of course, he realizes that these religious ideas are holding back his people in almost every way.
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  #23  
Old 20th July 2011, 08:15 AM
mrknowitall mrknowitall is offline
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Default Re: Aboriginal Spirituality - the Atheist perspective?

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c2105026 said View Post
Hello all,

A subject I have been covering at uni is one about Aboriginals and the issues they face. Now, some of our online modules have been about how spirituality is at the very core of Aboriginality - connection with the land, the dreaming, kinship etc. A possible athiest (or the Hitchens-esque nti-Thiesist") view on this could be is that the spiritual core of Aboriginal culture is all bullshit (due to its scientific invalidity), and as such the link to the land and dreaming are all bogus, and therefore Aboriginals should essentially assimilate into contemperary westernised society as complete and pure equal human beings with no land rights or view to self-determination. However, to say this publicly would be "racist". I have never actually thought of this issue up til this afternoon; I have no particular view on it.

What are others views on Aboriginal Spirituality? Do we have any Indigenous AFA members? What about the belief systems of other Indigenous peoples that are still existant and practised today?
Dreamtime, Christianity, Islam, Hindu, Catholic etc etc....... All fear based scaremongering featuring all manner of supernatural beings complete with rituals appeasements or Gods/deitys. Blah blah!

I give Aboriginal belief system as much consideration as any other religion. IE: None.

Granted they may have land right/compensation claims but I don't fly with the nonsense disclaimers I see on TV such as:

Disclaimer/Warning

Aboriginal people and Torres Strait Islanders are warned that this show may contain images of, or references to, deceased people. We respect that, in accordance with traditions of Aboriginal people and Torres Strait Islanders, this may be offensive or distressing. Every effort has been made to ensure that appropriate cultural approvals have been obtained.


Bollocks!!!!!!!! Utter drivel. Next thing we'll be respecting Sharia law during episodes showing stonings and wife beatings. Oh please.....((
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  #24  
Old 20th July 2011, 08:25 AM
mrknowitall mrknowitall is offline
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Default Re: Aboriginal Spirituality - the Atheist perspective?

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The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
MKIA: The "deceased people" thing is cultural, rather than religious: would you cut some slack on that, or is it an all-the-way thing for you?

All the way. To those people religion IS their culture. Political correctness gone mad.
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  #25  
Old 20th July 2011, 08:36 AM
mrknowitall mrknowitall is offline
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Default Re: Aboriginal Spirituality - the Atheist perspective?

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The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
MKIA: I'm going to have to disagree with you. when you bat on about the family unit as the bastion of civilisation,
Bat on? By that term "bat" are you referring to the slang for masturbation? I hope not. I certainly did not join this forum to be cajoled with smutty remarks.

The family unit is a bastion of civilization. It has been for tens or even hundreds of thousands of years. It doesn't matter if you're a Zulu, Aboriginal or a Caucasian living in a western democracy. You don't believe this is true?
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  #26  
Old 20th July 2011, 08:55 AM
mrknowitall mrknowitall is offline
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Default Re: Aboriginal Spirituality - the Atheist perspective?

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The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
MKIA: You are now beginning to bore. Strawman remarks, like the masturbatory accusation you have introduced, do not make your argument look better.

Can you source the etymology of "bat" as masturbation? Certainly neither my Oxford, nor any of my collection of vulgar dictionaries has anything, with one exception. If you are indeed a Caribbean Creole speaker, I apologise unreservedly.

Civilisations have succeeded with different family structures, and it seems you are only aware of one type.
From your public profile:

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Email is in signature picture.LocationBible Belt, QInterestsCapsaicin. Caffeine. Single Malts. Music. Puns.OccupationSongmender. Menu Architect. Atheologian. Utter, utter bastard.Many thanks for your recent replies. However your own self described attributes and demeanor under interests and occupation have made it patently clear what I'm dealing with. You will get no vitriolic response from me no matter how hard you may try to "try" me. LOL All the best!
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  #27  
Old 20th July 2011, 09:10 AM
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Default Re: Aboriginal Spirituality - the Atheist perspective?

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mrknowitall said View Post
[strike]The family unit is[strike] Cultural rules are a bastion of civilization. It has been for tens or even hundreds of thousands of years. It doesn't matter if you're a Zulu, Aboriginal or a Caucasian living in a western democracy. You don't believe this is true?
You argue against yourself which is to say, you have said nothing useful here.
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  #28  
Old 20th July 2011, 11:22 PM
Mantrid Mantrid is offline
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Default Re: Aboriginal Spirituality - the Atheist perspective?

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mrknowitall said View Post
Dreamtime, Christianity, Islam, Hindu, Catholic etc etc....... All fear based scaremongering featuring all manner of supernatural beings complete with rituals appeasements or Gods/deitys. Blah blah!
I'll admit I don't know that much about Aboriginal spirituality, but I've always taken it to be answers to the unknown through creative imagination. A way to answer the kiddies when they ask "How are rivers made?", instead of professing ignorance. Then again, I've always assumed that Dreamtime was light hearted. They seem to readily drop the religion when presented with facts. Do any Aboriginals still claim the rainbow serpent created the rivers?

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mrknowitall said View Post
Aboriginal people and Torres Strait Islanders are warned that this show may contain images of, or references to, deceased people.
I honestly find this hard to believe. I can imagine that the first Aboriginals who saw their dead ancestors in photographs may have been shocked and horrified, but if they're going to sit and watch TV these days - they must know how it works. It's moving pictures of previous moments in time. It captures images of people, who may die at a later time. I just don't get it.

Does every video have to warn if it shows any Aboriginals in it? If it's shown on TV and moments before it's aired, they confirm that all Aboriginals depicted are still alive, do they have to show the warning? What if an Aboriginal taped it and watched it 5 years later?

It seems ridiculous to me that people could hold this view. I've always assumed it was an Aboriginal joke to make the whiteys have to put the warning up. But if it really is a sincere view... put the warnings.
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  #29  
Old 20th July 2011, 11:26 PM
Mantrid Mantrid is offline
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Default Re: Aboriginal Spirituality - the Atheist perspective?

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mrknowitall said View Post
Bat on? By that term "bat" are you referring to the slang for masturbation?
Although I am familiar with the term "bat" as in "having a bat" to mean masturbation (it was a common phrase when I was at school), I didn't read it to mean that. I just read it as <blank>-on. Seriously though, take a deep breath. Stop taking offence where it's not intended. Apart from people threatening to beat you up (so far, I've only seen me get this), attacks here are against your argument.
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  #30  
Old 20th July 2011, 11:27 PM
Mantrid Mantrid is offline
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Default Re: Aboriginal Spirituality - the Atheist perspective?

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Protium said View Post
mrknowitall has left the building I'm sorry to say Mantrid
Damn it. You guys are harsh to newbies. I think we need some fluffy areas for the new people
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