Tbhatti says "Atheism: You're Doing It All Wrong!"

[wearestardust]

Hi tbhati. Thanks for your comments.

A response if I may, aside from some of the raw nerves you will have noted that you have touched.

Firstly, I suppose that yes,this guy could be regarded as a bit pissant and beneath our notice. The piece is on Online Opinion all the same. The thing that particularly struck me about those articles, especially the first one I responded to, is that it really is an extra-large with the lot of all the logical fallacies, spin and straight out misrepresentations that comprise the pro-chaplain position. A veritable one-stop shop of pro-chaplain stoopidz and disngenuity. These so-called arguments keep getting made and are worth responding to, it seems to me.

Secondly, and just as a remark on my method, I do note that comments against blogs are, well, shall we say, sometimes rather directed. Generally the comments that follow a blog are not a conversation, they're unidirectional comments. That is in fact why I comment on articles that pique my interest here, so that conversations can be had.

Thirdly, and most importantly, I am not sure that we can do anything as atheists. Maybe as secularists we can, but it only makes sense in the context of secularism-related matters. We're not a religion, or even a rotary club. Political views on this forum range from anarchists and lefties to economic liberals. Frankly, when I have been involved in community service, advocacy, or just helping out the neighbours, I've done so and do so as a human- both now and in the past when I was a theist.

I should also comment that the "there are bad things over there too" argument you put forward is exactly the same logical fallacy as the blogger's "leave us alone, what about kiddie pr0n" for the reason I stated. Yes those things are problems but it doesn't somehow make the chaplaincy issue any less pressing. Sorry

Finally, I don't really get what you mean by this:

Secondly, he doesn’t actually try and defend access ministries, and his freedom of religion line is hard to rebut- are we saying we want to take people’s universal right to freedom of assemble and religion away? Maybe some are- I'm not. I don;t believe in gods and think it is rubbish, but I look pretty narrow-minded if I try to impede other people's freedom to beleive something different.

Actually, he's trying pretty hard to defend Access Ministries. In particular, one of his ways of defending them is by arguing that xianity is a Good Thing and therefore worthy of being forced down people's throats. It's also got absolutely nothing to do with freedom of assembly or rights to believe, it's about whether religion gets a priviliged place in thepublic square. Of course the pro-chaplains play on making this confusion: that by wanting maintenance of secular public spaces, or freedom to criticise religion, we are being anti-religion or anti free speech. In other words, the theists are saying: follow our rules, and only we get to express an opinion, otherwise you are oppressing us.

In fact your comments seems to indicate that you've bought into this fallacious line of reasoning, which again underscores the need to keep hammering away at the stupidz. Sorry again

[Bolero]

Originally Posted by Jaar-Gilon

I'd comment but I don't want to miss Ass Ramming Sluts IV on channel 9, it starts in a couple of minutes!

Damn you, JG!!! (Insert fist-brandishing emoticon here) I snorted coffee all over my desk!!!

[Stubby]

Originally Posted by Bolero

Damn you, JG!!! (Insert fist-brandishing emoticon here) I snorted coffee all over my desk!!!

How did you make the coffee into lines?

[wearestardust]

Originally Posted by Stubby

How did you make the coffee into lines?

dude, you snort it, then you add the water.

(best done while wearing old clothes)

[Cosmic Teapot]

Originally Posted by Jaar-Gilon

I'd comment but I don't want to miss Ass Ramming Sluts IV on channel 9, it starts in a couple of minutes!

I thought Jerry Springer was only on Foxtel these days.

[Cosmic Teapot]

Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black

Iw as just walking past the telly the other night and thought I heard an American voice announce "Ass-Rode Truckers".

LOL
I believe it was "Ice Road Truckers" you heard.
The real question is; did your anally orientated mishearing make you more inclined to watch said program?

[Cosmic Teapot]

Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black

No, "reality" TV generally shits me.

And Ice Road Truckers is some of the worst toilet paper TV you'll see.
"Reality" is nowhere to be found as a TV producer is obviously injecting as much contrived "drama" into an otherwise mind-numbingly banal situation, like giving Susan Boyle botox treatments with a bike pump.

[tbhatti]

Sorry if I offended anyone. I am not sure who chose to take my reply to a post and turn it into a seperate thread with the title:"Atheism you are doing it all wrong". I never said that and I never meant that. I regret that my comments were taken to be an attack on atheism.

I was only wanting to highlight that (disclaimer coming so don't get angry!) IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, when I as an atheist act in a way that makes me look intolerant, biggoted, and abusive to others who do not agree with me, then, it can make atheism look pathetic. This was my point- it is what I beleive- not what I was claiming fro ar directed to all atheists. AS every new member of the forum is told:

"We're friendly but we're skeptical, and if somebody calls for proof, it's not an accusation. Only the strong ideas thrive here: we try to respect people. (We do not tolerate personal abuse.)

My point was that there was a lot of disresepct and personal abuse thrown at the guy who did the op[inion piece, and consequently now at me for raising it. If you want evidence of my claim there it is!

I reiterate: I am not telling anyone what to do, think, beleive, or how to act. what I have just expressed is MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION.

[Jaar-Gilon]

when I as an atheist act in a way that makes me look intolerant

I am intolerant of bullshit!

[Worldslaziestbusker]

Originally Posted by tbhatti

Sorry if I offended anyone. I am not sure who chose to take my reply to a post and turn it into a seperate thread with the title:"Atheism you are doing it all wrong". I never said that and I never meant that. I regret that my comments were taken to be an attack on atheism.

I was only wanting to highlight that (disclaimer coming so don't get angry!) IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, when I as an atheist act in a way that makes me look intolerant, biggoted, and abusive to others who do not agree with me, then, it can make atheism look pathetic.

If I act intolerant, that reflects on me, not on my absence of a belief in a concept, as my being an atheist is a state, not a dog or a chair or any other form of seperate entity to the rest of me.
Listen verr carefullee, I will say this onnlee as manee times as is needed for other people to get the hang of it: I am not intolerant of belief. I am perfectly happy for people to believe what they want. What I am intolerant of is those people bringing their beliefs into my life uninvited and I will meet the arrogance of those who try to push religious agendas on me with staunch opposition. My atheism is percussive and I will stop pushing back when others stop pushing me.