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  #11  
Old 2nd November 2017, 11:06 AM
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Default Re: Womanliness

Or, like the other thread, it might just be bloody stupid.
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  #12  
Old 2nd November 2017, 11:32 AM
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Default Re: Womanliness

I would guess that Blue Lightning clicked "dislike" because of the assumption that womanliness is a thing that needs to be defined. Is even a thing at all?

I would hate for my daughter to be expected to live her life according to someone's definition of "womanliness". As a society we should already be moving beyond that.

Think about how women used to be expected to behave, the role they were expected to fill:
https://www.colorado.edu/AmStudies/l...lm/gdhwife.htm

We've come a long way. We have a long way to go. Rather than trying to define how a woman should act in 2017, maybe we should be thinking about how we can move beyond assumptions about gender.
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  #13  
Old 2nd November 2017, 12:24 PM
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Default Womanliness

Az, perhaps the idea that the traits of what is manly or womanly are not so different is something that takes some time to wrap ones head around. After all, society had very set ideas for a long time.
These new ideas of people need to be thought about, learnt, and ultimately understood. It doesn’t happen in a minute, as old ideas have to be undone.
It is good that you ask, question, think, as this is how we all learn.
You’re two threads will hopefully give you a good insight into ways to move forward with your learning and understanding. To struggle with change is not a bad thing always. It can mean we are adjusting how we think. As long as we all are vigilant and understand our own biases, and work to change them, we are moving forward.
You are moving forward.


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Last edited by Mjt; 2nd November 2017 at 12:25 PM.
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  #14  
Old 3rd November 2017, 01:03 PM
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Default Re: Womanliness

Quote:
Azurisan21 said View Post
Blue Lightning, why don't you express your criticisms here on my OP?

I thought I was genuinely and innocently open-minded and curious but that you clicked dislike led me to wonder if I was apparently very sexist without realising so - was I?
Azu,

I dislike your habit of posting short OPs in which you pose questions without indicating in that post:
  • what provokes your interest in that subject, if anything,
  • that you've thought about the issue, to any extent at all.

Several people on this forum have been critical of your pattern of repeated vacuous OPs of this nature. I feel that I, and some others, have been sending you firm messages, for quite some time, about this pattern of posting.

One of the problems with communication generally is that, when presented with something approaching a vacuum, people are left to imagine how that vacuum might be filled in. To imagine what lies behind the vacuum. Of course, I readily accept that there is very great ambiguity in such communication. Especially online.

Nevertheless, such a pattern, steadfastly repeated even in the face of careful and constructive criticism, invites supposition in the reader about what lies behind the communication vacuum:
  • is there some limitation in your ability to comprehend simple criticism and adapt?
  • are you plain lazy in your approach to thought?
  • is it arrogance, in that you think our role here is to be your private version of Google?
  • are you a troll?

I really don't know.

Be that as it may, I'm thoroughly fed up with OPs which, by tedious repetition, invite these types of questions. In my opinion, it's well past time for you to have adapted.

Some may say, "Poor Azu. BL, you're being too hard."

Perhaps they're right, or perhaps I'm doing you a favour.
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  #15  
Old 3rd November 2017, 03:43 PM
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Default Re: Womanliness

Quote:
142857 said View Post
I would guess that Blue Lightning clicked "dislike" because of the assumption that womanliness is a thing that needs to be defined. Is even a thing at all? ...
@142857 - Your inference about some of my thought processes is on the right track. I would put it this way: I am skeptical of trying to force people into rigid mental boxes of almost any description. In too many quarters, it might invite stereotyping, objectifying, otherisation, of an unhealthy nature, as you have observed.

The once-scientist in me knows that we have to think in terms of models which involve approximations to reality, which necessarily involve simplification; but(!) we know more than enough these days not to treat people in so limited and entirely digital a manner. When we go beyond basic biology, as referred to in that link, to social constructs which are entirely digital, the problems increase almost exponentially.

Further to my previous comments, to post an OP so vacuously on a topic of such profound social importance, in relation to which so many people -including some folk here- have been mistreated or oppressed, without context or apparent thought, is ... hmmm ... not what I would have chosen to have done ...
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Last edited by Blue Lightning; 3rd November 2017 at 04:30 PM.
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  #16  
Old 3rd November 2017, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: Womanliness

Blue Lightning, there are people who get it. There are people who don't get it but think they do. There are people who don't get it, know they don't get it, and who ask vague and perhaps misguided questions in an attempt to get it.

Azu's questions have prompted some though on my part at least, so I'm glad that he asked them. I do hope, though, that he is actually trying to take on board some of the constructive advice and polite criticism he has received.
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  #17  
Old 3rd November 2017, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: Womanliness

Quote:
142857 said View Post
SNIP

Azu's questions have prompted some though on my part at least, so I'm glad that he asked them. I do hope, though, that he is actually trying to take on board some of the constructive advice and polite criticism he has received.
Initially, Azu seems to have interpreted my comments as being some jibe at his lack of popularity, as if these forums were an analogue of Facebook, rather than a crucible where ideas are vigorously tested.

Let us hope he moves beyond that, and encompasses the notion of ideas as separate from people, and also the spirit of vigorous discussion without rancour.
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  #18  
Old 3rd November 2017, 06:01 PM
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Default Re: Womanliness

@ 142857 - Yes, I agree. And, I hope I understand 'the benefit of the doubt', especially in cases of reticence. Here, however, IMO there's quite some history. History that, to me, strongly suggests how appropriate it might be for reform of Azu's approach.
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Last edited by Blue Lightning; 3rd November 2017 at 06:06 PM.
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  #19  
Old 4th November 2017, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: Womanliness

This is a kinda sensitive topic for me and i hesitate to speak on it but i don't see how defining a box for women to fit into is helpfull in understanding womanhood. I don't think there can be one right answear to such an absract and personal concept.

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  #20  
Old 7th November 2017, 11:24 AM
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Default Re: Womanliness

Maybe a better topic for thinking would be "being a person in community".

There could be musings on how others may feel or think differently, in ways one may not begin to comprehend, on how all people are important, and so is the common good, and on how individual will and whim must sometimes be tempered by altruism.

Getting out of one's own rut helps one see the road ahead, and the world around one, better.
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