Go Back   AFA Forums > Science, Logic and Reason > Environment and Conservation

Environment and Conservation Issues facing the natural world

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #71  
Old 9th May 2017, 01:57 PM
Madame Tarot Madame Tarot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 78
Default Re: Adani's Coal Extraction Nightmare

Quote:
The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
A Gish Gallop is exactly what you did, MT:

You implied that nobody, except those living a certain standard of technical poverty set by you, should have a view on the environment, and that a certain reporter was a hypocrite.

The accusation against the reporter, by the way, was a Tu Quoque fallacy:
Thanks Irrev I did Journalism Levels I, II and III via distance Education Queensland, but never worked as one. I know what Journos do and why they do it.

The keywords here are "truth" and "duplicity".

The general public seem (to me) to think jounos take some kind of "oath" to tell the truth. This is of course not true, their only aim is to sell product, if the truth sells the product they tell the truth, if an alternate truth sells their product they can also pay for their groceries.

In a news event, readers, who were there at the time, always tell us what the reporters got wrong. Meanwhile the same readers with an axe to grind collect favourable news reports like gathering mushrooms.

So it is all a duplicity.

Often E. issues reporting are not about the absolute TRUTH but more about size.

In E. equations some things look big at first but end up small when all the issues are considered.

Some others go vice versa.

As an example
Despite bad press used car tyres are not an environmental hazard they are inert and can only be attacked by ozone (generally speaking)

The unreported in the press part of the used tyre that abraded away is an environmental hazard and ends up polluting our air and waterways. Sediment samples taken across Moreton Bay Queensland show a contaminated gradient.

The traffic continues endlessly, and the reporting remains a commercial product.
__________________
God was a giant Queensland Blue Pumpkin. He was lonely and got bored so he blew himself up (aka the big bang) The pumpkin skin fragments became planets, the orange flesh vaporised into gasses and the seed fragments started life when conditions were right.

Last edited by Madame Tarot; 9th May 2017 at 01:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 9th May 2017, 04:49 PM
The Irreverent Mr Black's Avatar
The Irreverent Mr Black The Irreverent Mr Black is offline
An old banger, but almost unstoppable.
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Toontown
Posts: 4,434
Default Re: Adani's Coal Extraction Nightmare

Quote:
Madame Tarot said View Post
Thanks Irrev I did Journalism Levels I, II and III via distance Education Queensland, but never worked as one.
I went to Taronga Park Zoo, but I didn't qualify as a penguin.

You are changing tack to justify yourself, and it's not pretty.

Your use of logical fallacies remains visible.
__________________


My confirmation bias is better 'n your confirmation bias.

Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 9th May 2017, 05:16 PM
Madame Tarot Madame Tarot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 78
Default Re: Adani's Coal Extraction Nightmare

Thanks Irrev that tells me a lot.

mmm it seems you despise formal education and maybe you think your self education is better.

I knew from reading your posts that your communication skills were very low.

The skill in writing (communicating) is keeping a low "Fog Index" and not using obscure words.
__________________
God was a giant Queensland Blue Pumpkin. He was lonely and got bored so he blew himself up (aka the big bang) The pumpkin skin fragments became planets, the orange flesh vaporised into gasses and the seed fragments started life when conditions were right.
Reply With Quote
Dislike pipbarber, loubert, Soup Dragon disliked this post
  #74  
Old 9th May 2017, 05:21 PM
The Irreverent Mr Black's Avatar
The Irreverent Mr Black The Irreverent Mr Black is offline
An old banger, but almost unstoppable.
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Toontown
Posts: 4,434
Default Re: Adani's Coal Extraction Nightmare

Quote:
Madame Tarot said View Post
Thanks Irrev that tells me a lot.

mmm it seems you despise formal education and maybe you think your self education is better.

I knew from reading your posts that your communication skills were very low.

The skill in writing (communicating) is keeping a low "Fog Index" and not using obscure words.
Ad hominem attacks into the bargain?

You are not doing well.
__________________


My confirmation bias is better 'n your confirmation bias.

Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 9th May 2017, 05:27 PM
wolty's Avatar
wolty wolty is offline
This space for rent
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 24,253
Default Re: Adani's Coal Extraction Nightmare

Mod note: Reminder to stop with the personal stuff. Stick to the arguments.
__________________
.
.
.


The Nizkor Project- Logical Fallacies

Atheist: n; A person to be pitied in that he is unable to believe things for which there is no evidence, and who has thus deprived himself of a convenient means of feeling superior to others.
—Chaz Bufe, The American Heretic’s Dictionary
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 9th May 2017, 06:18 PM
pipbarber's Avatar
pipbarber pipbarber is online now
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,908
Default Re: Adani's Coal Extraction Nightmare

MT, there are quite a few posts you haven't responded to above. #63, 64, 68, 69 for example.

You seem to be introducing new and somewhat confusing analogous examples rather than responding with any clarity. Can you express what you want to say in plain terms?

Also, i dont care so much about your qualifications in regard to journalism but more your position which i would appreciate explication on. Are you talking about mainstream free to air tv news and tabloid papers? Or are you including investigative journalism generally? Every news and analysis reporter in the world?

Also, what has this got to do with the Adani coal mine? Are you in favor of the project? That'd be fine if you are, but i'd like to know your reasons.

Just in plain language, without cutting and pasting the chemical composition of air or the environmental hazards of rubber.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 9th May 2017, 08:35 PM
odd's Avatar
odd odd is offline
I, for one, welcome our new insect overlord.
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Pianosa.
Posts: 9,530
Default Re: Adani's Coal Extraction Nightmare

Quote:
Madame Tarot said View Post
Thanks Irrev that tells me a lot.

mmm it seems you despise formal education and maybe you think your self education is better.

I knew from reading your posts that your communication skills were very low.

The skill in writing (communicating) is keeping a low "Fog Index" and not using obscure words.
The nature of an online forum is such that we have to form an opinion on people based on what they write. Accurate or not, people may claim or deny formal education - the claim means little to me, the proof, as they say, is in the pudding.

MrB may be a professor or a year 10 drop out - it makes no difference, he has written stuff that has helped me think, like many other people here. This place is the great equaliser - titles and post-nominals make no dent on content.
__________________

'[They] agreed that it was neither possible nor necessary to educate people who never questioned anything.' ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

'While on the other hand, dachshunds are always out of their depth.' - Cyclist

'I'm 'a' problem, not 'the' problem.' - Wolty

'You have to be odd to be number one.' - Dr Suess
Reply With Quote
Like loubert, WesternGeo liked this post
Thank The Irreverent Mr Black thanked this post
  #78  
Old 10th May 2017, 04:03 AM
loubert's Avatar
loubert loubert is offline
*Insert naughty words here*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Townsville
Posts: 4,459
Default Re: Adani's Coal Extraction Nightmare

Quote:
Madame Tarot said View Post
Quote:
The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
So what's your implication? Should only those who have walked to wherever they are speaking, address an in-person (no tech, please) audience, bare-faced and clad in dried grass?

You may want to rethink the argument, because it's looking fruity, with a touch of loop, just now.
Thanks Irrev I stand by my statement.

Anyone living the high life should not be telling the rest us that we need to live a bare basic lifestyle.
How does one put this, the above is a bullshit argument, by moving society as a whole to lower (or nil) green house gas emitting technology, it benefits out worlds population regarding climate change, it is simply a large scale numbers game.

Quote:
In the E. industry the way things are worked out is an energy audit. An energy audit for a product/resource from the cradle to the grave and beyond Beyond includes waste disposal and waste chemical changes, gas discharges leachates.

For example, solar panels, if you do an audit and include the mining , manufacturing, transport and energy costs, lifespan and disposal costs and disposal, and disposal transport costs they are not as E. friendly as many people think they are.
still waiting on evidence for this claim, but here's the thing, solar panels output far more energy than is required to make them, and a key point about solar panels is there is no GG (green house gases) in their operation.
refer to figure two of http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy05osti/37322.pdf

Yes there is toxic material produced during manufacture, but it is treatable and manageable, the key point? No GG and reduces the carbon footprint.

Quote:
Pretty much those outside the E. industry all get it wrong.

Recently though despite all the years of selective reporting our feds have figured it out. They have figured out that we need to process coal and then sell low emission coal.
still has GG, hence climate issues.
__________________
Prejudices are what fools use for reason. Voltaire

Reply With Quote
Like wadaye liked this post
  #79  
Old 10th May 2017, 11:22 AM
Madame Tarot Madame Tarot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 78
Default Re: Adani's Coal Extraction Nightmare

Quote:
pipbarber said View Post
MT, there are quite a few posts you haven't responded to above. #63, 64, 68, 69 for example.

You seem to be introducing new and somewhat confusing analogous examples rather than responding with any clarity. Can you express what you want to say in plain terms?

Also, i dont care so much about your qualifications in regard to journalism but more your position which i would appreciate explication on. Are you talking about mainstream free to air tv news and tabloid papers? Or are you including investigative journalism generally? Every news and analysis reporter in the world?

Also, what has this got to do with the Adani coal mine? Are you in favor of the project? That'd be fine if you are, but i'd like to know your reasons.

Just in plain language, without cutting and pasting the chemical composition of air or the environmental hazards of rubber.
Thanks Pip I will work backwards through your post. All media works on the following basis when reporting the news.

The norm for Journos (EVERY JOURNO in the WORLD), is they take same facts, fill in some gaps and try to make a story out of it that they can sell.

If they do not do the above then they will have to look for another job.

Each journo tries to build his reputation and readership with "SPIN". Also the editor asks for "spin or bias" that will appeal to his readers/viewers/listeners.

So by choosing facts carefully and sticking roughly to them a Journo can just as easily paint a positive picture as a negative picture.

E. consultants have a bias too depending on who pays their wages - and the consequences of getting it wrong. So the norm is the project has their consultants and the Govt has theirs. As I said previously, some things appear big on a quick look but the become smaller as other considerations get bigger.

The relative assessment time taken by press vs the consultants is anyone's guess but it is certainly not equal.

As for Adani, good or bad, I do not know any assessment details and I would not assess it on news reports.

My expectation is Adani will be better controlled because it will be the latest mine and controls are tightening up.

I am off to bowls now 63 64 68 69 later.
__________________
God was a giant Queensland Blue Pumpkin. He was lonely and got bored so he blew himself up (aka the big bang) The pumpkin skin fragments became planets, the orange flesh vaporised into gasses and the seed fragments started life when conditions were right.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 10th May 2017, 12:34 PM
stevebrooks stevebrooks is offline
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,963
Default Re: Adani's Coal Extraction Nightmare

Quote:
Madame Tarot said View Post
My expectation is Adani will be better controlled because it will be the latest mine and controls are tightening up.

Except they have already breached emergency environmental requirements that were extended due to the cyclone and their argument in defence was, "so what, nothing was damaged!"


Your expectation simply isn't good enough for the rest of us, try to explain why they wouldn't do it again using evidence rather than wishful thinking.
__________________
From the mouth of a seven year old: "When you're you're dead, you don't go anywhere!"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 01:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.