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 Environment and Conservation Issues facing the natural world

#101
27th October 2017, 04:55 PM
 Stub King Take my advice, don't listen to me Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Melbourne Posts: 871
Re: Adani's Coal Extraction Nightmare

and the plot thickens

Australian ministers write to China to confirm approval of Carmichael mine

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...armichael-mine

Quote:
 Senior Turnbull government ministers have written a formal letter to China’s government to confirm that the controversial Adani Carmichael coal project in Queensland has passed all necessary environmental approvals. Frances Adamson, the secretary of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, told senators on Thursday that Adani may have requested the letter to help it secure funding from the Chinese
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#102
3rd November 2017, 06:42 PM
 Blue Lightning "Mr Charles Darwin had the gall to ask" Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Sydney Posts: 6,182
Re: Adani's Coal Extraction Nightmare

Interesting move:

Palaszczuk says she will veto federal Adani loan as she accuses LNP of 'smear'

Quote:
 The Queensland government will veto Adani’s application for a $1bn commonwealth loan to build a rail line for its massive Carmichael mine, Annastacia Palaszczuk has said. ... The move will be a heavy blow to the Indian mining giant’s attempt to win finance in China for the controversial coalmine, but puts the state Labor government on the right side of opinion polls on the issue. Perhaps a more immediate question is whether she'll get re-elected, get out of caretaker mode, with enough of a mandate to implement this commitment. __________________ "Just stick to the idea that science is just about making descriptive models of natural phenomena, whose emergent predictions are tested to destruction" - Woof! "Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves" - Richard Feynman #103 3rd November 2017, 08:02 PM  Darwinsbulldog AFA Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Perth Posts: 18,851 Re: Adani's Coal Extraction Nightmare Coal Tar soap is lovely and clean, so i don't see the problem????? __________________ Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.  Blue Lightning laughed at this post #104 4th November 2017, 09:26 AM  pipbarber AFA Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3,129 Re: Adani's Coal Extraction Nightmare A good move but what is this? Quote:  Queensland Premier denies conflict of interest after vetoing$1bn Adani mine loan QUEENSLAND Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk has denied a conflict of interest as she sensationally vetoed the mine’s loan application after it emerged her partner worked on it. QUEENSLAND Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk is denying any conflict of interest over a federal infrastructure loan assessment to Adani after it emerged her partner worked on the mining giant’s application for the cash. In an election bombshell, Ms Palaszczuk on Friday pledged to veto the $1 billion federal loan for the controversial Carmichael coal mine, saying her government would play no future role in its assessment. At a snap press conference, Ms Palaszczuk revealed her husband Shaun Drabsch, in his capacity as infrastructure advisory director for PwC, worked on Adani’s application for the loan under the Commonwealth’s Northern Australia Infrastructure Fund. I don't really understand this given she has vetoed the loan application. If her husband worked on the application the conflict of interest accusation may be justifiable if she passed the loan but not if she vetoes it, right? Anyway, the article concludes Quote:  To veto the loan, Ms Palaszczuk will need LNP leader Tim Nicholls’ endorsement, as the government is currently in caretaker mode, but her election opponent gave no indication he would lend a hand. “The premier should honour her word and pass through the Adani loan if the independent NAIF makes such a decision,” Mr Nicholls said in a statement. “If, as the premier claims, all necessary conflict of interest measures are correct and above board, why has she put thousands of jobs at risk with this extraordinary backflip?http://www.news.com.au/national/quee...9cccf1d96ba670 A lot seems to be hinging on this election. William Hill has Labor at$1.85 and LNP at $1.92. It really doesnt get much closer than that. __________________ Sunlight is the best disinfectant. #105 4th November 2017, 02:39 PM  stevebrooks AFA Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 5,102 Re: Adani's Coal Extraction Nightmare Quote:  pipbarber said A good move but what is this? I don't really understand this given she has vetoed the loan application. If her husband worked on the application the conflict of interest accusation may be justifiable if she passed the loan but not if she vetoes it, right? Anyway, the article concludes A lot seems to be hinging on this election. William Hill has Labor at$1.85 and LNP at $1.92. It really doesnt get much closer than that. Hmm, my understanding was that she only vetoed the loan after it was revealed that her partner worked on it, while it is now not a conflict of interest because she has vetoed it, it was a conflict of interest until she vetoed it. You don't get to claim innocence after the act. if she knew her partner was working on it, she would have known that it constituted a conflict of interest at the time. It's likely, from the news report I read, that she vetoed because of the possible impact on the election; Quote:  However, Ms Palaszczuk accused LNP senators in Canberra of a “smear campaign” and “circulating rumours” about Mr Drabsch, adding she had written to the state’s integrity commissioner for advice on the “rumours and innuendo”. She said her chief-of-staff advised her of the rumours on Tuesday night and labelled the LNP senators’ moves as “a new low in Australian politics”. “I am told they planned to use this during the election campaign to impugn my character and suggest something untoward,” the premier told reporters. Ms Palaszczuk insisted there had been nothing untoward and she had not known about her partner’s involvement as part of PwC’s work to secure a loan from the NAIF for the Galilee Basin mine. http://www.news.com.au/national/quee...9cccf1d96ba670 It's difficult to see how she could not have known about her partners involvement in one of the biggest projects in the state involving billions of dollars. That may indeed be the case, I'm certainly not calling her a liar, the problem for her is, even if it was true she knew nothing about his involvement, she can't prove she knew nothing about his involvement. Either way it might have, and still may, prove a body blow for the election. I think the chances for minimising impact have long gone. __________________ From the mouth of a seven year old: "When you're you're dead, you don't go anywhere!"  pipbarber thanked this post #106 4th November 2017, 04:14 PM  The Irreverent Mr Black Dang hubcap guitars! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Toontown Posts: 5,943 Re: Adani's Coal Extraction Nightmare __________________ (T)he problem with Men Going Their Own Way is that they never actually go. - Annie That which does not reflect, cannot be seen. #107 26th November 2017, 08:06 PM  pipbarber AFA Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3,129 Re: Adani's Coal Extraction Nightmare Quote:  China will finance Adani mine, insiders say, but it will cost Australian jobs The Adani Group is close to securing finance for its controversial coal mine and railway project in outback Queensland, with an announcement expected in coming weeks that Chinese state-owned enterprises, banks, and export credit agencies are backing the venture. Australian taxpayers may be let off the hook under the deal, which could mean Adani no longer requires an Australian Government-subsidised loan of up to$1 billion for the railway it needs to transport the coal to port. But China's money will come at the cost of local jobs. Chinese enterprises and export credit agencies invariably require that materials for key infrastructure are sourced from China, effectively shifting work out of Australia and undermining Adani's claims its project will create many thousands of additional jobs for Queensland. More at source and my bold http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-2...rs-say/9177470
I know the well informed folk on this forum are probably aware of this story, that broke a few days ago, but.....WTF????

This is now ridiculous. Anyone that supports this project is either a rusted on political nutcase or receiving brown paper bags full of cash.
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Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
 wadaye, Soup Dragon, Strato liked this post loubert thanked this post
#108
30th November 2017, 12:20 AM
 Sieveboy Being a bigot makes me sick. Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Not in bible land, Perth Posts: 5,629
Re: Adani's Coal Extraction Nightmare

Quote:
 pipbarber said I know the well informed folk on this forum are probably aware of this story, that broke a few days ago, but.....WTF???? This is now ridiculous. Anyone that supports this project is either a rusted on political nutcase or receiving brown paper bags full of cash.
Most likely it's bullshit, China and India aren't adding much in the way of thermal coal plants.

Edit: I thought I should do some research and it's a bit greyer than that. Thermal coal is doing fairly well at the moment, but that's probably reasons other than pure demand it would seem, and that is for the higher quality coal from Newcastle.

Edit 2: Carmichael mine is supposed to export to India, the Indians are aggressively moving away from shit quality coal plants that use high ash coal like Carmichael would produce. The Indians and the Chinese are hardly on the greatest terms politically, so why the Chinese would be funding this is opaque. Possibly to flood the market and/or keep the price pressure off the better quality coal coming out of Newcastle and Dalrymple Bay is the only reason I can see.
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Last edited by Sieveboy; 30th November 2017 at 12:35 AM.
#109
30th November 2017, 11:04 AM
 stevebrooks AFA Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 5,102
Re: Adani's Coal Extraction Nightmare

Quote:
 Sieveboy said Most likely it's bullshit, China and India aren't adding much in the way of thermal coal plants.

It's almost transparent blackmail. Basically if you don't do it (Australia) China or India will do it and all your jobs will go overseas.

I've said it once before and I'll say it again, never give in to blackmail, the end results are always worse than any result from standing up and saying "fuck off, go away and fuck off now."

Time grow some balls and tell Adani there is no chance of any mine, but alas it's politicians we are dealing with. There's time for compromise, and time for talking straight, Trump seems to always get the two the wrong way around, lets hope our politicians don't make the same mistake!
__________________
From the mouth of a seven year old: "When you're you're dead, you don't go anywhere!"
#110
30th November 2017, 03:34 PM
 Darwinsbulldog AFA Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Perth Posts: 18,851
Re: Adani's Coal Extraction Nightmare

Quote:
 stevebrooks said It's almost transparent blackmail. Basically if you don't do it (Australia) China or India will do it and all your jobs will go overseas. I've said it once before and I'll say it again, never give in to blackmail, the end results are always worse than any result from standing up and saying "fuck off, go away and fuck off now." Time grow some balls and tell Adani there is no chance of any mine, but alas it's politicians we are dealing with. There's time for compromise, and time for talking straight, Trump seems to always get the two the wrong way around, lets hope our politicians don't make the same mistake!
With an unstable Trump in the Whitehouse, that puts the US-Oz alliance into question. Trump ties to act on every lousy brain-fart he gets, and is super-dangerous.

Oz, the USA, Japan etc NEED the to PRC to keep North Korea in check. This will come at a cost. Which may include trade concessions, or some softening of Australia attitude [and it's allies] over the South China sea question.

But I agree we should not cave on everything. North Korea is nuts, but they are not wrong about Trump.

The PRC has to use some caution too. Although embarrassed [at least publicly] about their North Korean ally, it is nevertheless an ally. One of very few.

The price of the PRC's FULL cooperation regarding N. Korea will inevitably come at a huge cost, both politically, and economically [and of course environmentally].

Australia has had a long and dishonourable past, appeasing more powerful nations by presenting it's arse to be ravaged. We are not only a client state, but begged to be a client state. We have a "mommie complex". Despite grandiose statements by politicians over the years, we thought we needed a nurse maid [the UK], and when that faded, we quickly grasped at Uncle Sam's apron strings.

The irony is that self-defence would not have been all that expensive, and indeed, helped with local industry and the economy. Instead, we have spent most of our time as a nation inviting itself to other people's wars. [Spending not only vast amount of treasure, but thousands of lives as well].

So we are stereotyped as a regional whore, with more than a touch of racism.
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Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.

Last edited by Darwinsbulldog; 30th November 2017 at 03:35 PM.

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