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Introduce Yourself Please introduce yourself and share what makes you faithless or faithful.

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  #31  
Old 13th November 2017, 05:02 PM
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more than two thirds of the eleven occurrences in the Gospel of Matthew have neuter or masculine noun endings, and a similar portion are plural, which is in line with the Hebrew plural abstract meaning “their rebellion”. Is the level of your inquiry into the nature of the document best summed up in the opinion you earlier expressed about the bible, that “it's fictional shite”?
Do you have any references other than your own say-so, your own book? Has anyone else noted this translation issue?

I'm not an expert on this, I've only read one book about biblical scholarship, by Bart Ehrman. Are you familiar with his work? He's very good. He's devoted a whole career to studying the original biblical manuscripts, and applying textual analysis and other techniques to determine the true nature of these writings. He doesn't seem to have come up with anything like the same conclusions you have.

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  #32  
Old 13th November 2017, 05:11 PM
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Darwinsbuldog appears to be a little dismissive of metaphysics.
Perhaps a clear definition of what you mean by metaphysics would help, though somehow I suspect not.
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  #33  
Old 13th November 2017, 05:35 PM
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One last hurrah for Skeptics. To The Irreverent Mr Black, you expressed an opinion that the bible is “fictional shite”. As this is a Skeptics forum, which is presumably concerned with rational inquiry, would you please give me the benefit of your knowledge of the Bible. Did you examine the original Koine Greek text in order to verify that the biblical interpretation provided by the translators was valid? Or did you just make a monumental assumption that there was only one possible interpretation, and that it was a religious document as the religious clerics would have us believe? If you are relying on the translation of the bible that has been provided by others, then you do not know anything about the bible, all you know is what biblical interpreters say they know. These same biblical scholars have interpreted the Koine Greek word Μαρίας (mirias), which comes from Μαρία (maria – Strong’s No. G3137), as Mary (Mother of Jesus), singular, even though more than two thirds of the eleven occurrences in the Gospel of Matthew have neuter or masculine noun endings, and a similar portion are plural, which is in line with the Hebrew plural abstract meaning “their rebellion”. Is the level of your inquiry into the nature of the document best summed up in the opinion you earlier expressed about the bible, that “it's fictional shite”?
I'm ex-clergy. I'm a bit rusty, but I can exegete.

However, to what I am certain will be your chagrin, I try my best not to "apophene" (to Koine a term).

Never mind that you have singled out one book from the whole body of fictional shite (and, yes, without a god the theme is a fiction, and quite shite, right down to the last four-legged grasshopper in it), and chosen to set it as a treatise on metaphysics (whatever you are personally defining it to be), setting at naught the fact that it is, at least, part of a greater canon of shite.

What, for example, are you doing about the other two synoptic gospels? Do they cover quantum physics and encoded instructions for a perpetual motion machine?

Why is it you suppose the document to be a hidden treatise on metaphysics and not what William of Ockham would probably say it is, ie what's on the cover?
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  #34  
Old 13th November 2017, 10:44 PM
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@C2- I have, fleetingly and supremely imperfectly, examined the koine ‘gospels’.



Why do they matter? Written decades after the events they purport to relate to? Written by anonymous, well educated Greeks? Hearsay upon hearsay upon hearsay upon hearsay. And plainly not independent.

They are historically important books, but only because they offer insights into the primative minds and primative social groupings that gave rise to them.
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  #35  
Old 13th November 2017, 11:52 PM
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Not seeing the wood for the trees.
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Old 14th November 2017, 03:53 AM
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It's a bit hard to see the wood for what it is, because it's been pulped and turned into a load of, as IMB says, shite.
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  #37  
Old 14th November 2017, 11:36 AM
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Perhaps kids' literature is worth reimagining:
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It’s easy to poke fun at some of these more outlandish readings. Could they perhaps be the products of parents so addled by a text that, following their umpteenth nightly recital, the words start acting like one of those magic-eye images? Stare at them long enough and sense will materialise. Or nonsense. How else could a 22-page picture book like The Very Hungry Caterpillar yield capitalist, Christian, feminist, Marxist, queer and anti-liberal messages?
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  #38  
Old 14th November 2017, 11:40 AM
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The proof is in the books that I wrote, and the fact that in the Koine Greek document, misnamed the Gospel of Matthew, it explains how free-will and determinism both operate in their different ways, and are not opposed to each other. This is something that no philosopher in the last 2000 years has been able to do.
Just a minor point, the stoics argued that free-will and determinism were compatible long before the Gospel of Matthew was written, for some definition of those words at least ;-)
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  #39  
Old 14th November 2017, 11:57 AM
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Hey C2. Welcome.
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  #40  
Old 14th November 2017, 01:05 PM
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Do you have any references other than your own say-so, your own book? Has anyone else noted this translation issue?

I'm not an expert on this, I've only read one book about biblical scholarship, by Bart Ehrman. Are you familiar with his work? He's very good. He's devoted a whole career to studying the original biblical manuscripts, and applying textual analysis and other techniques to determine the true nature of these writings. He doesn't seem to have come up with anything like the same conclusions you have.
I must be a heretic to have a different point of view. What can I say, legions of monks and religious scholars has quibbled over their own misunderstandings.

"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
(Leo Tolstoy, 1828-1910, Russian novelist and philosopher, from The Kingdom of God is within You, chapter 3, 1894, translated by Constance Garnett and transcribed by Tom Lock.)

"I forget what I was taught, I only remember what I've learnt." (Patrick White, 1912-90, from The Solid Mandala, 1966).

The mental effort to overcome what an individual has been taught, and only use the knowledge that one has personally wrought from that mental effort, sets that individual apart. If I rationally analysed “Animal Farm”, written by George Orwell, as if it was a matter-of-fact real story, and not an allegory, then people would rightly reject any reasoned arguments I may have put forward. Philo of Alexandria (20 BC – 50 AD), said that the Bible was an allegory, yet many are quite happy to praise Thomas Paine’s rational analysis of the Bible, in his book “The Age of Reason”. Paine misunderstood the nature of the document he was critiquing, and so all of his comments missed their mark entirely. Heraclitus apparently said that what Homer wrote was allegorical. Its only information, and it is my last post.
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