Go Back   AFA Forums > Secularism and Social Issues > Mental health and Well-being

Mental health and Well-being For discussion of the Black Dog and associated topics (please note this will be moderated as needed for everyone's safety).

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 2nd December 2015, 09:29 PM
Pearo Pearo is offline
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 87
Default Re: How should society manage drug addicts?

Quote:
pipbarber said View Post
Decriminalisation is proving to be far more successful in Portugal in terms of lowering addiction rates than traditional law and order approaches.



Wise words and i have to concur. However, given the savings from reductions in policing, trialing and imprisoning users far more systematic and individuated programs would become feasible.



Huh? Didnt you just mention shoehorning and what works for some...

Addicts arent all the same by any stretch and addiction may have certain definable qualities but types of addiction variants are many.

The question is, what is the best way to deal with society's drug addicts. Decriminalisation is not the only answer but its a fucking good start. Or we could just keep doing what we do now. Its extremely costly, fills up prisons, destroys lives and kills people. But then again, cars do all that too, so maybe we should just keep doing what we're doing and ignore the whole issue.
You mentioned you were and addict in another thread. Are you saying that if your particular poison is not available, then you will not go for an alternative?

I am not shoehorning here, just pointing out the truth. An addict needs the drug, they are not particular about the source or quality. I must admit, when I used I preferred the higher quality stuff, but I would never refuse lower quality gear.

Even a smoker, not being able to obtain their particular brand will go for what ever is on sale.

I am by no means opposed to decriminalisation. I am also not opposed to recreational drug use. Like anything on this planet, most people will be responsible but a percentage will abuse.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 2nd December 2015, 09:44 PM
STOKER STOKER is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 224
Default Re: How should society manage drug addicts?

Young people are always going to want to experiment with drugs, that's just human nature. Proceeding from that premise, should teenagers actually have the option to be provided with cannabis, alcohol (LSD?), in an environment were they are under discreet supervision from adults, while also being warned about the extreme danger posed by heroin/ meth etc?
This would surely minimize potential dangers of them accessing drugs from disreputable sources. I admit this is a bizarre (and unforeseen!), turn that my thread has taken, but is it actually a more honest and mature! strategy. It may avoid future deaths, like what happened to Anna Wood from ecstasy.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 3rd December 2015, 12:00 AM
joele's Avatar
joele joele is offline
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,451
Default Re: How should society manage drug addicts?

Yes there are two distinct issues regarding prohibition, the addicts which is a no brainer to me, doctors have to be able to help them as discussed. The other group is the larger recreational use group, and that is a little more difficult I think.

I do also agree with the issue STOKER just raised, forgot about that before. I.e. the added danger of the impurity of the drugs, with people thinking they are getting one thing which has it's risks, but getting a cocktail of other even higher risk drugs.

Last edited by joele; 3rd December 2015 at 12:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 3rd December 2015, 12:16 AM
joele's Avatar
joele joele is offline
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,451
Default Re: How should society manage drug addicts?

Yes Anna Wood, i feel that it is somewhat inappropriate to try and second guess that situation but to my understanding she got sick 5 hours before she died, but instead of getting her to hospital they took her home. I do wonder if drugs were decriminalised would they have been more likely to seek medical help?

Last edited by joele; 3rd December 2015 at 12:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 3rd December 2015, 09:18 AM
Mjt's Avatar
Mjt Mjt is offline
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: rural
Posts: 5,803
Default Re: How should society manage drug addicts?

There is a very interesting discussion on ABC radio ATM around peer group programs focusing on stopping recreational users getting into real trouble.
From my understanding many people manage their drug use well, quite possibly with the exception of ice which seems to be a whole new ball game.
Given the problems we are experiencing with ice right now, the government needs to step up now and provide treatment places now, so people seeking help can get it now. Now. Not in 6 months time. That's too long a wait.
We need to stop treating our addicted people like criminals. Because it can happen to anyone.
I had a young friend pop in last week. He's 19, small town boy, good job, happy family, ice addict. In rehab, because his family could borrow to put him into a private program. He's one of the fortunate ones,


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Twisted Sister
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 3rd December 2015, 09:49 AM
joele's Avatar
joele joele is offline
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,451
Default Re: How should society manage drug addicts?

Quote:
Mjt said View Post
Given the problems we are experiencing with ice right now, the government needs to step up now and provide treatment places now, so people seeking help can get it now. Now. Not in 6 months time. That's too long a wait.
We need to stop treating our addicted people like criminals. Because it can happen to anyone.
I had a young friend pop in last week. He's 19, small town boy, good job, happy family, ice addict. In rehab, because his family could borrow to put him into a private program. He's one of the fortunate ones,
I do wonder what has changed with crystal methamphetamine, it was well and truly around and available 20 years ago, but not the epidemic?

Secondary to the drug is there a societal problem worsening driving more people to it? isolation etc? or is it just being made stronger and stronger?

This article from ABC talks about the increase in people choosing ice over speed and an increase of regular use, but no explanation as to what is causing the shift.

https://theconversation.com/factchec...gal-drug-46134

Quote:
According to the latest population statistics, 2.1% of the population reported using methamphetamine in the 12 months prior to the survey, which was conducted in 2013. This includes people who have used once in a year and those who use every day. This statistic has remained stable for at least the last 10 years, so there does not appear to be a huge increase in new users.


As a comparison, just over 10% of the population report using cannabis in the last year, 4.7% pharmaceuticals (for non-medical purposes), 2.5% ecstasy (MDMA) and 2.1% cocaine.


The same data show that about half of methamphetamine users prefer ice over other forms. The proportion of users who use ice as their main form of methamphetamine has doubled since 2010 - from 22% of users to 50% of users. This suggests that regular users are switching from speed to ice.


In addition, these data show that existing users are using more frequently, with a larger percentage of users reporting using weekly or daily, but a lower quantity. As a result of these changes, we have seen an increase in harms associated with methamphetamine use.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 3rd December 2015, 09:56 AM
pipbarber's Avatar
pipbarber pipbarber is offline
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,782
Default Re: How should society manage drug addicts?

Quote:
Pearo said View Post
You mentioned you were and addict in another thread. Are you saying that if your particular poison is not available, then you will not go for an alternative?
No, you're right, i go for alternatives or a cocktail of alternatives that sometimes includes healthy behavior like extreme exercise but generally that sucks.

This may be a bit off topic but i'm amazed at the availability of virtually any drug that's been created via silkroad type websites. Thing is they generally require a minimum level of tech skills. You need to access the deep web and own some bitcoin but once you've got that sorted you can order anything you want at very reasonable prices and at any quantity or amount so in the unlikely event that your 'letter' gets detected, lets say with a couple of LSD tabs, the legal ramifications aren't completely devastating.

So really, whats the point of criminalisation? It simply doesnt work, its utterly unenforceable. Its a waste of police time and money.

Also, i noticed a few nic addicts are here. I'm a nic addict but i've been getting my nic hit from vaping devices for nearly three years now and i feel like a non-smoker, ie easy to breathe, no cough, no excess gunk in the lungs, no stink, taste buds work and my lung capacity - which was tested earlier this year, was within a normal range for someone my age and thats after smoking cigarettes for 20 years. There's nothing actually damaging about nicotine, accept it's addictive, the damage is caused by the smoke. Vape on

...as an addendum to that, it's illegal to sell nicotine for vaping in Australia but it's not illegal to import it for personal use! Where's the sense in that?

Last edited by pipbarber; 3rd December 2015 at 10:00 AM.
Reply With Quote
Like joele liked this post
  #28  
Old 3rd December 2015, 10:01 AM
joele's Avatar
joele joele is offline
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,451
Default Re: How should society manage drug addicts?

Quote:
Darwinsbulldog said View Post
Addiction is not due to will power or personality, but how the receptors in our brains differ, and adapt to drugs.
BTW I didn't mean to imply drug addiction is related to will power, sounds too free will based to me which doesn't work in with being a determinist IMO. However if I believe that the biochemistry of my brain is a large factor that influences my personality along with experiences (I don't think that is a huge leap?) then would it not be correct in a way to say the receptor differences are in fact akin to personality differences as they are biochemical differences, or am I making too big a leap?

Sorry off topic, but just curious..
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 3rd December 2015, 04:23 PM
Mjt's Avatar
Mjt Mjt is offline
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: rural
Posts: 5,803
Default Re: How should society manage drug addicts?

Quote:
joele said View Post
Quote:
Mjt said View Post
Given the problems we are experiencing with ice right now, the government needs to step up now and provide treatment places now, so people seeking help can get it now. Now. Not in 6 months time. That's too long a wait.
We need to stop treating our addicted people like criminals. Because it can happen to anyone.
I had a young friend pop in last week. He's 19, small town boy, good job, happy family, ice addict. In rehab, because his family could borrow to put him into a private program. He's one of the fortunate ones,
I do wonder what has changed with crystal methamphetamine, it was well and truly around and available 20 years ago, but not the epidemic?

Secondary to the drug is there a societal problem worsening driving more people to it? isolation etc? or is it just being made stronger and stronger?

This article from ABC talks about the increase in people choosing ice over speed and an increase of regular use, but no explanation as to what is causing the shift.

https://theconversation.com/factchec...gal-drug-46134

Quote:
According to the latest population statistics, 2.1% of the population reported using methamphetamine in the 12 months prior to the survey, which was conducted in 2013. This includes people who have used once in a year and those who use every day. This statistic has remained stable for at least the last 10 years, so there does not appear to be a huge increase in new users.


As a comparison, just over 10% of the population report using cannabis in the last year, 4.7% pharmaceuticals (for non-medical purposes), 2.5% ecstasy (MDMA) and 2.1% cocaine.


The same data show that about half of methamphetamine users prefer ice over other forms. The proportion of users who use ice as their main form of methamphetamine has doubled since 2010 - from 22% of users to 50% of users. This suggests that regular users are switching from speed to ice.


In addition, these data show that existing users are using more frequently, with a larger percentage of users reporting using weekly or daily, but a lower quantity. As a result of these changes, we have seen an increase in harms associated with methamphetamine use.

I only have what I've heard from the younguns about here.
Ice is cheap. And very very readily available. It's everywhere. Dealers are easy easy to find..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Twisted Sister
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 14th December 2015, 03:34 PM
tmorg tmorg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 284
Default Re: How should society manage drug addicts?

Quote:
Do any members have any thoughts on how society should manage people who are hopelessly addicted to heroin/ice etc, and have resorted to stealing to support their habit.
If they can learn by reading I would give them a copy of "For Your Own Good" by Alice Miller and tell them to read the chapter about Christiane F. In another of her books there is a chapter about a heroin addict journalist which also enlightens as to why the drug addict uses to excess.

In therapy I would investigate their childhood, partially siding with the child (neutrality get stuffed), and investigate why they have turned to poison to mollify their anguish. I suspect there is something, a hidden gem that lies within, that they have yet to find. This hidden gem is the child who did not learn its intrinsic worth in its formative years.

Ultimately, management will never work because it fails to deal with the problem at its root (repressed childhood emotion e.g. hatred toward an abusive parent, sibling or "friend"). Management might help by e.g. legalising illicit drugs so as to undermine the underworld economy. Therefore it is legit. (You could trial it first.)

Last edited by tmorg; 14th December 2015 at 03:38 PM. Reason: Unhealthy perfectionism
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 08:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.