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  #11  
Old 2nd December 2015, 12:08 AM
Pearo Pearo is offline
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Default Re: How should society manage drug addicts?

As former IV addict who is now 15 years clean, let me say this. There is no one solution. Decriminalisation is not the answer to drug addiction, that is separate topic. Whatever you think is the ideal solution to the problem is, you are wrong.

The biggest problem society has with dealing with anything, is shoehorning people into a certain category. What works for someone will not work for the next person. It is impossible to deal with each and every addict as an individual, but that is the only way to deal with the problem. Some of us get lucky, most dont.
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  #12  
Old 2nd December 2015, 01:06 AM
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Donmegga Donmegga is offline
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Default Re: How should society manage drug addicts?

In my opinion, drugs like ice would not be very popular in a world of legalised drugs. The reason meth is so prevalent today is because it is very difficult to procure the precursors to better quality designer drugs due to prohibition.

Wouldn't drug takers rather buy the cleaner good stuff if it were available on the market. Even ice addicts know it's harmful shit, but they want to get high anyway,so they settle for cheap, nasty ice.
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  #13  
Old 2nd December 2015, 01:24 AM
Pearo Pearo is offline
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Default Re: How should society manage drug addicts?

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Donmegga said View Post
In my opinion, drugs like ice would not be very popular in a world of legalised drugs. The reason meth is so prevalent today is because it is very difficult to procure the precursors to better quality designer drugs due to prohibition.

Wouldn't drug takers rather buy the cleaner good stuff if it were available on the market. Even ice addicts know it's harmful shit, but they want to get high anyway,so they settle for cheap, nasty ice.
Addicts will take whatever they can get, got nothing to do with price or quality.
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  #14  
Old 2nd December 2015, 09:34 AM
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joele joele is offline
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Default Re: How should society manage drug addicts?

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Pearo said View Post
Addicts will take whatever they can get, got nothing to do with price or quality.
True, but I think the point is criminalization contributes to the dirtiness of a lot of the available drugs as it is has pushed the production of drugs to a certain type of 'person' to make them.

I think we are talking about two different things, you are right some people have addictive personalities that need a wide range of support to avoid alcohol or drug addiction, decriminalization will de-stigmatize them slightly but it is a wide range of support they need (as you mentioned earlier). Other people only recreationally use drugs (the vast majority in most studies) and those people are also criminalized by prohibition. I think we all got side tracked talking about the later situation as that is becoming a bit of a hot topic at the moment. The later group are also labelled by a lot of people as drug addicts (particularly by people against drugs) but that really isn't true or what you mean (and really is) drug addiction.

As this shows drug use is very very high in our society but most really shouldn't be classed as drug addicts, just like everyone who enjoys the occasional drink should be classed as alcoholics.

http://www.aihw.gov.au/alcohol-and-o...icit-drug-use/

I do think decriminalization would decrease crime rates associated with even the 'truly' drug addicted.

Last edited by joele; 2nd December 2015 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 02:45 PM
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Default Re: How should society manage drug addicts?

Quote:
Pearo said View Post
As former IV addict who is now 15 years clean, let me say this. There is no one solution. Decriminalisation is not the answer to drug addiction, that is separate topic. Whatever you think is the ideal solution to the problem is, you are wrong.
Decriminalisation is proving to be far more successful in Portugal in terms of lowering addiction rates than traditional law and order approaches.

Quote:
The biggest problem society has with dealing with anything, is shoehorning people into a certain category. What works for someone will not work for the next person. It is impossible to deal with each and every addict as an individual, but that is the only way to deal with the problem. Some of us get lucky, most dont.
Wise words and i have to concur. However, given the savings from reductions in policing, trialing and imprisoning users far more systematic and individuated programs would become feasible.

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Addicts will take whatever they can get, got nothing to do with price or quality.
Huh? Didnt you just mention shoehorning and what works for some...

Addicts arent all the same by any stretch and addiction may have certain definable qualities but types of addiction variants are many.

The question is, what is the best way to deal with society's drug addicts. Decriminalisation is not the only answer but its a fucking good start. Or we could just keep doing what we do now. Its extremely costly, fills up prisons, destroys lives and kills people. But then again, cars do all that too, so maybe we should just keep doing what we're doing and ignore the whole issue.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 05:04 PM
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Darwinsbulldog Darwinsbulldog is offline
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Default Re: How should society manage drug addicts?

I think decriminalization of users helps. But legalizing is another matter. Legalizing implies that society approves of drug abuse. Basically, drug abuse is stupidity. Because no one knows how a drug may affect them personally, we all differ in our responses to various drugs. And everyone is stupid, sometimes, especially while young.
On the other hand I do appreciate the arguments against a nanny-type state. Perhaps if we had reliable tests for all these recreational drugs in how they affect individuals, people might be able to make more informed decisions about using recreational drugs.
I was lucky with alcohol, I can use it, and as a young person I abused it. But I never became addicted to it. The same for smoking pot. I can enjoy it, but if I never smoke it again-meh. I don't care. Nicotine addiction is entirely different [for me]. I may be able to tolerate other drugs:heroine, cocaine, meth or whatever, but I won't take the risk. Perhaps I am missing out on some good experiences, but my tobacco addiction is protective in that sense, because I don't want another addiction battle.
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  #17  
Old 2nd December 2015, 07:54 PM
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joele joele is offline
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Default Re: How should society manage drug addicts?

Yeah everyone is different, I gave up nicotine in my late 20s when i wanted to, not a problem at all, still can't understand why my partner has such difficulty with it, but clearly she does. I have plenty of other problems I'm sure, lol, but yeah I tried a lot of stuff many years ago, just lucky i don't have an addictive personality I guess?

My problem with decriminalising but not legalising is the continued business we give gangs etc and the encouragement they get to continue operating the way they are. In the end they are violent as they can't use the police when they get ripped off so they have to use violence to make themselves a target not worth the risk of stealing from.
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  #18  
Old 2nd December 2015, 08:27 PM
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Darwinsbulldog Darwinsbulldog is offline
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Default Re: How should society manage drug addicts?

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joele said View Post
Yeah everyone is different, I gave up nicotine in my late 20s when i wanted to, not a problem at all, still can't understand why my partner has such difficulty with it, but clearly she does. I have plenty of other problems I'm sure, lol, but yeah I tried a lot of stuff many years ago, just lucky i don't have an addictive personality I guess?

My problem with decriminalising but not legalising is the continued business we give gangs etc and the encouragement they get to continue operating the way they are. In the end they are violent as they can't use the police when they get ripped off so they have to use violence to make themselves a target not worth the risk of stealing from.
Addiction is not due to will power or personality, but how the receptors in our brains differ, and adapt to drugs.
If you decriminalize drug use [NOT drug supply], you deprive the drug mafia of their motivation to get involved. If the addict gets their drugs free under medical supervision, they can't sell drugs to users. You create financial disincentives for the drug dealers and suppliers and at the same time, a sliding scale of punishment to encourage whistle-blowers. Divide and conquer.
Organized crime attempts to create a state within a state, and for that reason, you have to be unusually harsh, and even "undemocratic" with the leadership.
Somehow, we have to get politicians and lawyers on the same page. That is, the legislation must be cleverly targeted to strip legal rights from the drug mafia without posing general dangers for the legal rights of everyone else.
I would not go as far as to find a suspected drug lord guilty if a juror gets the flu, but we have to get pretty close to that situation AN be prepared to throw some serious money, thought and effort into witness protection programs. Because drug [and other mafia's] prime tactic is to subvert the course of justice.
They threaten [and in some places] kill and torture police, officers of the court, politicians, witnesses and indeed anyone who opposes them in some countries in South America.
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  #19  
Old 2nd December 2015, 08:39 PM
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joele joele is offline
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Default Re: How should society manage drug addicts?

If you decriminalise but not legalise are you suggesting people who wants drugs for a party say (like rave scene) are going to be able to go and get drugs from their gp? I don't think it works like that, I may be wrong?

In my experience a large portion of drug users are recreational users, who are they buying from? To my understanding they still buy from drug dealers they just can't be charged for possession.

Last edited by joele; 2nd December 2015 at 08:50 PM.
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  #20  
Old 2nd December 2015, 09:19 PM
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Darwinsbulldog Darwinsbulldog is offline
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Default Re: How should society manage drug addicts?

Quote:
joele said View Post
If you decriminalise but not legalise are you suggesting people who wants drugs for a party say (like rave scene) are going to be able to go and get drugs from their gp? I don't think it works like that, I may be wrong?

In my experience a large portion of drug users are recreational users, who are they buying from? To my understanding they still buy from drug dealers they just can't be charged for possession.
No, you are probably right!

Silly puppy!

I was concentrating on making life better for addicts. Addiction is a medical issue, not a legal one.
But if drugs were free and given by doctors, that ruins the financial incentive for drug dealers, so perhaps it is not a totally dumb idea. You can discriminate, but still educate on the dangers of drug use.
The outright prohibition of alcohol in the USA was an abysmal failure, and only played into the hands of the Mafia.
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