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  #11  
Old 2nd January 2017, 08:24 PM
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Strato Strato is offline
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Default Re: Christian's inability to see irony

A Google search on slavery in the New Testament of course brings up a wall of Christian sites, apologists for the Bible, bastards all

There you go, Rationalwiki.

Quote:
Slavery in the New Testament

The New Testament makes no condemnation of slavery and does no more than admonish slaves to be obedient and their masters not to be unfair. Paul, or whoever wrote the epistles, at no time suggested there was anything wrong with slavery. One could speculate that this might have been because he wanted to avoid upsetting the many slave owners in the early Christian congregations or to keep on good political terms with the Roman government. Or, more probably, he simply thought slavery was an acceptable fact of life as did practically everyone else at the time.

Ephesians*6:5-8 (NASB):
5: Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ;
6: not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart.
7: With good will render service, as to the Lord, and not to men,
8: knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free.

Christian slaves were told to obey their masters "for the sake of the cause" and be especially obedient to Christian masters:

1 Timothy*6:1-2 (NASB):
1: All who are under the yoke as slaves are to regard their own masters as worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be spoken against.
2: Those who have believers as their masters must not be disrespectful to them because they are brethren, but must serve them all the more, because those who partake of the benefit are believers and beloved. Teach and preach these principles.

There are instructions for Christian slave owners to treat their slaves well.
Ephesians*6:9 (NASB):

9:And masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him.
Colossians*4:1 (NASB) 1Masters, grant to your slaves justice and fairness, knowing that you too have a Master in heaven.[6]

One passage often cited by apologists as supposed evidence for New Testament condemnation of slavery is 1 Timothy*1:10. However, as the King James version accurately translates, this condemnation is of "men stealers" (Greek: andrapodistais), i.e. slave raiders who kidnapped and sold people as slaves, not slave traders or slave holders in general. So Paul only singled out slave raiders to be considered "lawless and rebellious," and to be categorized with murderers, homosexuals, liars and oath breakers.

The rather bland admonishment to slave masters by Paul is more than balanced by the demands for absolute obedience made of slaves. It is also rather telling that the masters are likened to God and Jesus, while the masters are simply told that they have a higher lord. So much for Jesus as the embodiment of the underdog - Paul could have pointed to Jesus' imprisonment and death as a cautionary tale to slave masters that even humble(d) characters can be important.

Before the apologist plays the "but Jesus didn't condone slavery"-card, following all these Pauline examples, try reading Matthew*18:25, where Jesus uses slaves in a parable and has no qualms about recommending that not only a slave but also his wife and family be sold, while in other parables Jesus recommends that disobedient slaves should be beaten (Luke*12:47) or even killed (Matthew*24:51).
Concise article,

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_Bible
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  #12  
Old 2nd January 2017, 10:24 PM
Darth_Luigi Darth_Luigi is offline
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Default Re: Christian's inability to see irony

Quote:
Strato said View Post
A Google search on slavery in the New Testament of course brings up a wall of Christian sites, apologists for the Bible, bastards all

There you go, Rationalwiki.



Concise article,

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_Bible
You don't expect christians to learn what's in the bible from non-believers do you?
We would probably lie our arses off.
Unlike that preacher from the video.
He's a good Christian that will always tell the truth.
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  #13  
Old 2nd January 2017, 11:48 PM
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Default Re: Christian's inability to see irony

I suspect I can see some cognitive dissonance going on in the clean cut guy. He's in denial methinks.
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  #14  
Old 3rd January 2017, 12:17 AM
stevebrooks stevebrooks is offline
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Default Re: Christian's inability to see irony

Quote:
Darth_Luigi said View Post
You don't expect christians to learn what's in the bible from non-believers do you?
We would probably lie our arses off.
Sorry I can't help it...can't...stop...myself.

The irony is, we probably couldn't make up shit as fucked up as the shit found in the bible!
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  #15  
Old 3rd January 2017, 10:30 AM
Darth_Luigi Darth_Luigi is offline
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Default Re: Christian's inability to see irony

Quote:
Strato said View Post
I suspect I can see some cognitive dissonance going on in the clean cut guy. He's in denial methinks.
You have to check out about 16-17 min in.
Where he justifies a man signing up for a lifetime of slavory because his wife has 4 years of indentured servitude left.

It would only make sense if the wife was a life long slave too.
But what do I know
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  #16  
Old 3rd January 2017, 02:17 PM
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Default Re: Christian's inability to see irony

Quote:
Darth_Luigi said View Post
So I decided to comment on an anti-Islam post the other day. Not because I'm pro-Islam but because hypocricy gives me the shits.

The origonal meme was about slavory and someone commented "I am guessing many Muslims would try and contextualize those verses and suggest they are irrelevant for today, but it still raises serious questions about the moral character of Mohammed."

And I replied "Do you mean the same way Christians try to contextualise the pro slavery passages in the bible?"

So after a reply of "No, the Bible doesn't promote slavery and certainly not in the way Muslim texts do!!", a shit load of bible verses from me and a back and forth he posted a link to this video.

https://youtu.be/l2q3fql-BlY

This is literaly a preacher trying to contextualise/reinterpret/whitewash/flat out lie about what the bible says about slavoury.

The irony... it burns!
I think that you missed a good opportunity there to instead do something like "Yeah, how can they possible try and argue that this is a good thing" and then quote several bible passages. Once you have enough on the band wagon, point out that they are all from the bible and not the qur'an. The backtracking would have been impressive to say the least.
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  #17  
Old 3rd January 2017, 02:31 PM
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Darwinsbulldog Darwinsbulldog is offline
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Default Re: Christian's inability to see irony

Quote:
Darth_Luigi said View Post
You have to check out about 16-17 min in.
Where he justifies a man signing up for a lifetime of slavory because his wife has 4 years of indentured servitude left.

It would only make sense if the wife was a life long slave too.
But what do I know
Another good source for checking facts in the Holy Wibble and other Magic books is:-

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

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  #18  
Old 3rd January 2017, 09:08 PM
Darth_Luigi Darth_Luigi is offline
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Default Re: Christian's inability to see irony

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cyclist said View Post
I think that you missed a good opportunity there to instead do something like "Yeah, how can they possible try and argue that this is a good thing" and then quote several bible passages. Once you have enough on the band wagon, point out that they are all from the bible and not the qur'an. The backtracking would have been impressive to say the least.
I've seen that done before.
Might try it next time

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  #19  
Old 3rd January 2017, 09:12 PM
Darth_Luigi Darth_Luigi is offline
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Default Re: Christian's inability to see irony

Quote:
Darwinsbulldog said View Post
Another good source for checking facts in the Holy Wibble and other Magic books is:-

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

It's my first stop.

I was shocked when I went to 'What the Koran says about slavory'.

There's actualy very little compared to the bible.

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  #20  
Old 3rd January 2017, 10:37 PM
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Strato Strato is offline
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Default Re: Christian's inability to see irony

The Atlantic slave trade and slave holding in America had its biblical justification.

Again in Genesis, the Noah myth tells of Noah planting a vineyard after the Ark came to rest. Noah gets buckled and lays in the cave naked.

His son Ham discovers Noah and broadcasts the news, scandalising the old man. The other sons walk backwards with a blanket and cover Noah's shame.

Noah awakes and pronounces the patriarchal blessing on the two respectful sons but curses Ham for his disrespect, pronouncing the doom that his progeny will serve the others'.

Hence it was deemed entirely in accord with God's will to enslave Africans, the believed offspring of Ham, for wealth and toil by Christian children of Shem, according to those "bible scholars" who pore over this shite.

This account of the races, an implicitly hierarchical one by divine ordination is still believed in.

I fear things are going to get much uglier in America now, that this dark, insidious racist doctrine will be professed more boldly, as a manifesto in some quarters.

http://www.bible-history.com/old-tes...enesis-10.html
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