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Education How it is and how it should be. The current system and those attempting to subvert it.

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Old 23rd September 2017, 10:27 AM
stevebrooks stevebrooks is offline
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Default New Mexico, 6000yo and counting.

The state of new Mexico in the US is to stop teaching, evolution, like Turkey, Climate Change, like Australia and...wait for it, the age of the earth like, well like no-one. yes you heard right, it's not that they are going to argue against it, they are just going to stop teaching it. How on earth does that work for geology students. How do you explain the existence of anticlines and volcanic remnants, for instance like these in the New Mexico desert without referring to the age of the earth?





Oh well, god put them there I guess!


https://ffrf.org/news/news-releases/...from-its-youth
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Old 24th September 2017, 12:51 AM
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Default Re: New Mexico, 6000yo and counting.

Why is it so hard to get these morons off the steering wheels of civilisation?
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Old 25th September 2017, 11:59 PM
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Default Re: New Mexico, 6000yo and counting.

They should have them blasted to rubble, erased. They are only inconveniences, begetters of controversy.
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Old 26th September 2017, 10:31 AM
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Default Re: New Mexico, 6000yo and counting.

Damn xtians always interfering with shit they dont understand, then when society has to deal with the consequences they blame liberals, gays or whoever they hate at the time.

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Old 27th September 2017, 01:26 PM
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Darwinsbulldog Darwinsbulldog is offline
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Default Re: New Mexico, 6000yo and counting.

Sad, but not necessarily fatal to science.

First, science does not demand an assumption of reality, or even truth. A "scientific truth" is just shorthand for saying that a scientific hypothesis has run the gauntlet of destructive testing, and for the moment is not found wanting.

So people can believe the Earth is only 6K years old, provided they can imagine [or "pretend"] that the Earth is 4.6 billion years old.

IF it is imagined that the Earth is 4.6 billion years old, then a coherent geology follows.

So it is not fatal. The god-botherers could easily imagine that it pleases the lord that we believe the Earth is 6K years old, but for the purposes of science, imagine that the Lord wants us to do science as if the Earth is 4.6 billion years old when practising science. In this way, we can do god's work, and not blaspheme. Because god only makes it appear as if the Earth is four point six billion years old, so we can do geology and science more easily.

Of course, among the more perceptive of souls, this could lead to cognitive dissonance, unless they compartmentalise science and religion into their own magesteria.

Which I think, was the Late Stephen J Gould's point of NOMA.

One is very unlikely to change a fundamentalist's mind set. NOMA is a way of getting such folks to accept science as a useful, but non-threatening narrative.

Of course, I doubt it will be taught that way in New Mexico, but as in martial arts, the frontal assault can can be both destructive and futile.

This is not pandering to a delusion, but rather, a subtle way of showing folks the way out.

Note the way Jerry Coyne at first gets their attention, and then loses it by directly challenging their beliefs.



The secret with such folks I think, is to present science as another way of looking at things. Because for many, this is going to be their first real exposure to it. The aim of the game is threat reduction, not upping the ante.
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Last edited by Darwinsbulldog; 27th September 2017 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 27th September 2017, 03:54 PM
stevebrooks stevebrooks is offline
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Default Re: New Mexico, 6000yo and counting.

Quote:
Darwinsbulldog said View Post
Sad, but not necessarily fatal to science.

First, science does not demand an assumption of reality, or even truth. A "scientific truth" is just shorthand for saying that a scientific hypothesis has run the gauntlet of destructive testing, and for the moment is not found wanting.

So people can believe the Earth is only 6K years old, provided they can imagine [or "pretend"] that the Earth is 4.6 billion years old.

IF it is imagined that the Earth is 4.6 billion years old, then a coherent geology follows.
The problem is not as the above, it's a mistake you have made but easily made I guess, the problem isn't that people can believe the earth is 6,000 years old but practice science as if it's 4.6b years old, I would and do have no problem with that practice, the problem is that the students aren't being taught the earth is 4.6b years old! Whether they believe it of not is irrelevant, because they it's not in the curriculum they won't be taught it. And what happens in a generation when the current crop grow up, none of them actually knowing the age of the earth as science measures it?

If we simply stop teaching something it eventually becomes forgotten, the idea is to erase the concept of an old earth by stealth, if they stop teaching the actual number it becomes an unknown and whatever is taught is believed. The kids aren't taught the scientific age of the earth, the only age they hear is from the church, they grow up believing that's the actual figure with no idea it's just made up bullshit, or that other people think different numbers, well until they go to uni and fail to get a geology degree of course.
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Old 27th September 2017, 06:41 PM
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Default Re: New Mexico, 6000yo and counting.

Quote:
stevebrooks said View Post
The problem is not as the above, it's a mistake you have made but easily made I guess, the problem isn't that people can believe the earth is 6,000 years old but practice science as if it's 4.6b years old, I would and do have no problem with that practice, the problem is that the students aren't being taught the earth is 4.6b years old! Whether they believe it of not is irrelevant, because they it's not in the curriculum they won't be taught it. And what happens in a generation when the current crop grow up, none of them actually knowing the age of the earth as science measures it?

If we simply stop teaching something it eventually becomes forgotten, the idea is to erase the concept of an old earth by stealth, if they stop teaching the actual number it becomes an unknown and whatever is taught is believed. The kids aren't taught the scientific age of the earth, the only age they hear is from the church, they grow up believing that's the actual figure with no idea it's just made up bullshit, or that other people think different numbers, well until they go to uni and fail to get a geology degree of course.

I stand corrected Steve.

The true data [4.6 billion years] is not even getting a mention.

Pretty amazing and chilling stuff.
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