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  #281  
Old 11th February 2017, 03:53 PM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: Does Aung San Suu Kyi condone genocide?

So we have a translation of ASSK's speech by a journalist from the Rohingya Blogger and it is reposted by Dr Maung Zarni, who says that ASSK gives different messages according to the audience she is talking to;

http://www.genocidewatch.com/single-...rent-audiences

But then Spearthrower you say you don't like the translation. Well please provide another one then.
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  #282  
Old 11th February 2017, 09:31 PM
Spearthrower Spearthrower is offline
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Default Re: Does Aung San Suu Kyi condone genocide?

Quote:
wadaye said View Post
If you will stop being an apologist for a denialist then maybe more attention can be made to the issue.
Yet a further iteration of your repeated mendacious discourse.

You stated this before, that I am some kind of Burmese stooge. This just makes you look a drooling idiot, Wadaye - no one would seriously buy into such an absurd claim that I am a shill for the Burmese government. It's just whack. It's tinfoil hat whack.

It does, however, reiterate what I've been saying throughout: your interpretations are incoherent ravings. You don't feel the need to base your claims on reality, you think just the fact that you can string some words together lends the resulting sentence some truth value - you've shown you have totally abandoned any pretext of honest discourse, of any of the values of rationality. You're ranting at me. You need a blog, because this is not and never has been a discussion as you're completely unwilling to consider anything you say as being even potentially wrong.


Quote:
According to your logic ST, Malala is also being vicious in criticising ASSK in her open letter with the other Nobel Laureates
And yet another utterly stupid thing to say. Did I say that all criticism of Aung San Suu Kyi is vicious? No, of course I fucking didn't - and if you wish to contend otherwise, then cite the fucking words or retract. Clear?

I said that YOUR criticism is vicious, because you keep imputing nefarious agendas and mind-reading her secret evil motives. It's delusional wank, Wadaye.

Any which way, you have no barrel bottoms left to scrape. As per a suggestion made to me, I think it's time to consider this thread the equivalent of playing with a horny dog who wants to hump my leg.
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  #283  
Old 11th February 2017, 09:44 PM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: Does Aung San Suu Kyi condone genocide?

As i said above if it comes down to a question of whether i believe the Rohingya Blogger or ASSK on the issue of whether there is ethnic cleansing going on, which has beendenied and claimed as exaggerations and fabrications by ASSK until the UN came out verifying the reports and which she still will not admit, i will believe what has been written so far by the Rohingya Bloggers on this issue.
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  #284  
Old 11th February 2017, 09:49 PM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: Does Aung San Suu Kyi condone genocide?

Quote:

Any which way, you have no barrel bottoms left to scrape. As per a suggestion made to me, I think it's time to consider this thread the equivalent of playing with a horny dog who wants to hump my leg.
Get some help
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  #285  
Old 11th February 2017, 09:51 PM
Spearthrower Spearthrower is offline
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Default Re: Does Aung San Suu Kyi condone genocide?

Down boy! DOWN!

As for the notion that I'm the one who needs help when it's you who thinks they can read nefarious motives in people saying the opposite of what you believe them to mean....

Or calling me a Burmese government stooge... yeah, that's perfectly sane!


Anyway, how many different ways do you need to use to abuse me?

It's obviously because your arguments aren't good enough that you keep abusing me to try and deflect me from noting your argumentative failings.

Do you stand behind all the many personal attacks you've made on me, Wadaye? Shall I list them again so you can check? I doubt you remember them all as you just tossed them out as a distraction.

It's amazing the lengths some people will go to in order to protect their cognitive bias.

Last edited by Spearthrower; 11th February 2017 at 09:56 PM.
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  #286  
Old 11th February 2017, 10:05 PM
Spearthrower Spearthrower is offline
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Default Re: Does Aung San Suu Kyi condone genocide?

So what have we had so far.

You've declared that I am stupid - the wording was about how I am lacking in intelligence.

You've declared that I am anally retentive. For what reason? I don't know. I doubt you do either, but you just wanted to attack me.

You've declared that I am mentally ill several times, coupled with a few instances of saying that I am delusional, and 3 instances of telling to seek professional help.

You've stated several times that I am engaging in violence when I've never threatened you with anything at all.

So my question in the beginning of this thread was about how you came by your claims and it quickly became apparent that they were your own manufacturing, spiteful insinuation after spiteful insinuation. When I pointed this out, you turned those spiteful insinuations on me as well.

Given that this is exactly how you proceeded with your attacks on Ehrman, given that you've got no more evidence for me being mentally ill or intellectually challenged than you have of Aung San Suu Kyi nefariously conspiring with the military to enact genocide on the Rohingya, given that the one common denominator between all these bizarre and spiteful insinuations is your absolute certainty in the correctness of your utterances and your unwillingness to inspect your claims, how is anyone supposed to hold a conversation with you Wadaye?

If your ideas are not to be challenged, go get yourself a blog. Otherwise, understand that abusing people just reflects on you and your character.

Last edited by Spearthrower; 11th February 2017 at 10:07 PM.
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  #287  
Old 11th February 2017, 10:13 PM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: Does Aung San Suu Kyi condone genocide?

You don't answer me and my points but you want me to. You have offered precious little content or evidence to the thread, just accusations that i am smearing ASSK and you.
What i said is factually correct. ASSK has stated in English that the reports are exaggerated (Channel News Asia 2 Dec 2017). She even went so far as to say the military is acting in accordance with the rule of law. That is to say there is a conspiracy to present fabrications.
You are acting as an apologist in defence of her denialist tactics.
That is without even looking at what ASSK said in Burmese on the same day, noting that you have not offered an alternative transliteration.
You have called me a deranged liar, before resorting to sexual filth.
That is to say you are defending ASSK in making these statements. Since her statements are demonstrably false propaganda for the military regime, in choosibg to defend her you are acting as her apologist.
You may not like that but that is where your rhetoric has landed you. Take a look at yourself. You are on the wrong side of history on this.
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  #288  
Old 11th February 2017, 10:51 PM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: Does Aung San Suu Kyi condone genocide?

So the Rohingya Blogger website has staked its credibility on the accuracy of the translation of Aung San Suu Kyi's speech in Singapore into English

Quote:
J. Denials and ‘fabrications’

On December 1, Aung San Suu Kyi laughed out loud and openly agreed with the allegations as ‘fabrications’ and urged the Burmese public to disregard and counter these allegations. Her State-counsellor office accused me of ‘propagandist fighting Myanmar with malicious falsehood video footages” for translating and putting English subtitles on her Q&A video taken in Singapore.

Despite mounting evidence of crimes against humanity being committed against Rohingya, her office defended the military “regarding those incidents (rape, extrajudicial killing, destruction of Rohingya villages, etc.), after asking the Tatmadaw (Burma’s armed forces) and Border Guard Troops in those regions, it is known that the information is absolutely not true”, when herself once said in May 2011, that “rape is used in my country as a weapon against those who only want to live in peace, who only want to assert their basic human rights. Especially in the areas of ethnic nationalities, rape is rife. It is used as a weapon by armed forces to intimidate the ethnic nationalities and to divide our country.”
- See more at: http://www.rohingyablogger.com/2017/....magKbFPu.dpuf
Edit:
The translator of the Singapore question and answer has here identified that a literal translation of the speech was and is impossible to translate in such a way as to give the meaning which was delivered to the audience in the translation. Hence, as is always the role of translators, the translator has communicated the meaning, and justified the use of that meaning.

http://www.haikalmansor.com/aung-san...ocide-victims/

The alternative mode of literal translation in every case results in the absurdities such as when Bob Hawke's 'don't play silly buggers' comment was translated, literally and incomprehensibly as 'don't play laughing homosexuals ...'

Translation and interpretation is always meant to convey the meaning, that is to communicate the meaning between two people. Literal translation usually can't accomplish this goal and so most interpretation is not done this way.

Personally I am satisfied with the translators comment.

For example he refers to ASSK being on the record as stating that the reports of abuses are exaggerated. You can listen yourself to her saying that in English in the Channel News Asia interview of 2 December 2016.
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Last edited by wadaye; 11th February 2017 at 11:03 PM.
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  #289  
Old 11th February 2017, 11:16 PM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: Does Aung San Suu Kyi condone genocide?

Voice of America News
http://www.voanews.com/a/asia-weekly...s/3717688.html
Quote:
WASHINGTON —
A recent report issued by the office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights chronicles killings, gang rapes, beatings, disappearances, and other crimes and acts of cruelty against ethnic Rohingya Muslims at the hands of Myanmar’s security forces.
...
Pope Francis said, “They have been suffering for years, they have been tortured, killed simply because they wanted to live their culture and their Muslim faith.”

What, however, will it take to resolve the abuses outlined in the report?
Five analysts shared their opinions with VOA.

Jonah Blank, senior political scientist at the RAND Corporation
" At a deeper level, however, the greatest burden rests with Myanmar: to end the abuses documented by the U.N. and other observers; the government in Yangon must uphold the basic human rights and civil rights of its Rohingya citizens."

...
Hunter Marston, Myanmar analyst

“... Only the free flow of information, unhampered by security forces and the NLD (National League for Democracy party) government, can accurately report the facts on the ground, which will lead to effective policy making.”
...
Greg Poling, director of the Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative

“Bottom line, there is no way the situation of the Rohingya improves unless the political leadership in Myanmar, meaning especially Aung San Suu Kyi, chooses to really grapple with the issue, roll back state-sanctioned discriminatory policies and pressure the military to change its approach. The Rohingya have been systematically disenfranchised and demonized by successive governments since the 1960's. Now even liberal members of society, including many senior officials within the NLD government, see them as not only not citizens, but undeserving of any basic human rights. Perhaps Aung San Suu Kyi doesn't agree with that sentiment, but she has also been unwilling to say a word in defense of the Rohingya. In effect, they are being sacrificed so she and her government can focus on the lot of ethnic Burmans and more powerful and more widely accepted ethnic minorities. As long as that's the case, things cannot improve.”
...
Evan Rees, Stratfor Southeast Asia analyst

" Aung San Suu Kyi has been silent because she herself has little control over the military and risks popular backlash from Buddhist populists. "
...
Phil Robertson, Asia division deputy director of Human Rights Watch

"The grievous rights abuses uncovered by OHCHR can only be adequately responded to by an independent, international investigation commissioned by the U.N. Human Rights Council when it meets next month. The Burma government had its chance and has only shown interest in whitewashing its security forces' use of rape, extrajudicial executions, and arson to destroy entire Rohingya communities."

...

Regional responses

In a closed door meeting of officials and international agencies in Dhaka, Bangladesh this week, the group said Myanmar’s government remains “in denial” about alleged atrocities carried out by its military against minority Rohingya Muslims. The U.N. high commissioner for human rights said Myanmar leader Aung Sang Suu Kyi was moved by its report; however, she doesn’t have constitutional control of the security forces.

On Thursday, however, Myanmar’s Foreign Affairs Ministry said authorities will conduct an investigation into alleged atrocities in the Rakhine State. The ministry’s director-general, Aye Aye Soe, told Radio Free Asia, “We’ll have to find out how truthful the allegations are.”

Now note that there was only one of these five named analysts prepared to put a reason for ASSK's failure to defend the Rohingya, and that reason does not square with her up till now denials of the reports of atrocities as being exaggerated.

The others did not bother to come to her defence and provide justifications for her inexcusable inaction and denials of the atrocities.
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  #290  
Old 11th February 2017, 11:58 PM
Spearthrower Spearthrower is offline
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Default Re: Does Aung San Suu Kyi condone genocide?

Consigning this thread to the great garbage bag in the sky. Adieu!
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