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  #271  
Old 10th February 2017, 05:14 PM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: Does Aung San Suu Kyi condone genocide?

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Spearthrower said View Post
...My replies in accordance with your loaded question then are limited to a) to condemn her even though I don't agree with the bizarre and convoluted reasoning you have provided for accepting these claims or b) to refuse to condemn what you have labeled as atrocities.

....
What do you mean by that? You said yourself there are crimes against humanity being committed against Rohingya.
ASSK has previously denied and ridiculed the reports. But when its thrust in her face by the UN, well then the UN assures us that in private she has said the reports will be investigated.
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  #272  
Old 10th February 2017, 05:46 PM
Spearthrower Spearthrower is offline
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Default Re: Does Aung San Suu Kyi condone genocide?

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wadaye said View Post
So, ST, did I say that I got a translation from my Burmese speaking friend?
I already mentioned I could not vouch for the English translation.
Yes, you did by continuously - and I mean a dozen times - referring to your story about the situation as if it were fact.

As for whether you said you got a translation from a Burmese speaking friends.... are you going to deny it now?

I should let you dig yourself deeper, but as I am not a troll and actually proving a point about your terminal disregard for honest discourse, I'll just cite your revised post. Revised 35 mins after writing, I add.


http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/...&postcount=148


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wadaye said View Post
I can't vouch for the english translation but i have no reason to doubt Maung Zarni who is a reliable and forthright blogger on human rights in Burma

Edit: i have checked with a Burmese speaker who said this was reported all over the news in Sibgapore

Edit 2: the translation indicates that ASSK is asking for people to combat the 'fabrications' of genocode

Edit 1 was under way 35 minutes after you wrote the initial post stating you couldn't vouch for the translation.

A Burmese speaker as a source for Singaporean news has no intellectual connection at all, your labeling them as a Burmese speaker is to bolster your claims concerning the content. From there on, for dozens of posts, you've repeatedly stated that the translation is accurate.

So now you're pretending that your position is that you can't vouch for the content? So how do you explain the dozen posts you've made repeating the content of that speech when you have no independent knowledge of it and cannot vouch for it?

Wadaye, you make absolutely no fucking sense at all.
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  #273  
Old 10th February 2017, 05:49 PM
Spearthrower Spearthrower is offline
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Default Re: Does Aung San Suu Kyi condone genocide?

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To be fair, I really had a bone to pick with your ridiculously violent goading even on that thread, and perhaps out of misguided politeness reacted against Ehrman rather than you. I've learned my lesson. I've come to the conclusion that you were right about the likelihood of an historical jesus. But your manner of goading and smug self assuredness is not a pretty sight.

Edit: I would also add that I was disgusted at your manner of internet discourse even before interacting with you, on several threads

I missed this amidst all the personal abuse you were throwing at me around this point of this thread.

What a fucking lark it must be to toss out shite like this to defend a shit argument.

It's almost as if you think the membership here are cretins to be so easily led around by the nose.

Learn what the word 'violent' means before using it as a way to troll for a reaction. The remainder is purely projection and of the same kind that makes you think you can posit nefarious intentions in other people, basically the very thing wrong with this thread.

Last edited by Spearthrower; 10th February 2017 at 05:55 PM.
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  #274  
Old 10th February 2017, 05:52 PM
Spearthrower Spearthrower is offline
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Default Re: Does Aung San Suu Kyi condone genocide?

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wadaye said View Post
What do you mean by that?
It's pretty fucking clear from the context of my post and all the other posts I've written in this thread.

You have claimed that Aung San Suu Kyi has a) purposefully and nefariously not called the Rohingya by that name (an allegation that is far removed from reality) and labeled it as part of a sweeping government attack - given that she's doing the opposite of the SDPC and she has made her intentions quite clear, I reject your assertion that this represents an atrocity. Similarly, you claim that she stood on a stage in front of hundreds of people and laughed at the plight of the Rohingya, painting the act as an atrocity. I reject your interpretation and I reject your specious reasoning regarding that. So on and so on - my point, of course being that the amount of shit you've slung around has nothing to do with the REAL situation the Rohingya are facing and everything to do with a vicious fantasy about Aung San Suu Kyi you've concocted. These are not real atrocities, they are make-believe. So naturally, I can't condemn her - as your loaded question requires me - for something I think is pure bullshit.

I can't imagine how you could have misread that.


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wadaye said View Post
You said yourself there are crimes against humanity being committed against Rohingya.
Which really underscores that when you tried to pretend I hadn't before, when you tried to claim I was a Burmese stooge, it was all just for chain-yanking purposes.

Clearly, given you knew that, then you know my position isn't the fantastic construct you've developed as one of your strategies to evade criticism of your ideas.


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wadaye said View Post
ASSK has previously denied and ridiculed the reports. But when its thrust in her face by the UN, well then the UN assures us that in private she has said the reports will be investigated.
I think you live in a parallel universe where all the things you say happened actually did, it's just that here in this universe, they categorically didn't.

Last edited by Spearthrower; 10th February 2017 at 06:02 PM.
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  #275  
Old 10th February 2017, 06:04 PM
Spearthrower Spearthrower is offline
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Default Re: Does Aung San Suu Kyi condone genocide?

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Just wave away her accusations that the reports of atrocities are exaggerated, ignore that those who tried to speak to the Kofi Annan commission were punished (as in the trophy video) and those who tried to speak to the international community have been killed
https://www.burmamuslims.org/content...speaking-press

Just wave away that the commission was conducted, inter-alia by members of the military
Just wave away that she says she is satisfied and that the army is conducting itself according to the rule of law
just wave away that she said the Rakhine are concerned about demographics when she full knows that the Burmese government is conducting demographic transfers of Burmese into Rakhine state, at the expense of Rohingya
Just wave it all away.

Just wave away your contrived and barely coherent reasoning? Wave away your counter-factual absurd motivated reasoning?

Yes, yes I will. I can assure you of that.

Oh and this is another example of you stonewalling me where I showed that your previous question was loaded, you denied it, then you proceed onwards as if your claim wasn't just shown false.

Your discourse is despicable.
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  #276  
Old 11th February 2017, 08:36 AM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: Does Aung San Suu Kyi condone genocide?

Nickolas Kristoff on ASSK abandoning principle for political expediency.
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/myanma...27-gmf0wu.html

[I assume i will be accused of appeal to authority her]

This little feud here is apparently not the only feud on the issue as the UN is also apparently feuding about how to deal with it.
ASSK has said enough in English about there not being ethnic cleansing, about reports of human rights abuses being exaggerated, about how the use of the word Rohingya causes violence, in appointing officers of the military to investigate, and so on, for honest observers who look into the situation to see that her actions are partisan in the conflict.

Edit: i should not have said conflict. Its a massacre of civilians, not a conflict. Its ASSK who continues to refer to it as a conflict.

Spearthrowe, In relation to not using the word Rohingya, do you think it would have saved the Jews of Europe if other governments and some nazi business leader stopped using the word "Jew"?
Edit 2
One more thing . ASSK says in the Channel News Asia video linked above that the police in Rakhine are under her civil government's control and they are working very well with the military to bring calm in Rakhine. Thats a direct admission of complicity in the actions going on there.
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Last edited by wadaye; 11th February 2017 at 09:07 AM.
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  #277  
Old 11th February 2017, 11:21 AM
Spearthrower Spearthrower is offline
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Default Re: Does Aung San Suu Kyi condone genocide?

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wadaye said View Post
Nickolas Kristoff on ASSK abandoning principle for political expediency.
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/myanma...27-gmf0wu.html

[I assume i will be accused of appeal to authority her]
No, of course not. Here, let me explain these words you clearly have no grasp of at all.

When you try to establish a point contrary to your interlocutor by sharing a 3rd person's opinion and rambling about how they're someone special - it's a clear appeal to authority. No one is an authority on opinions.



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wadaye said View Post
This little feud here is apparently not the only feud on the issue as the UN is also apparently feuding about how to deal with it.
The feud here is to do with your discursive mendacity, exemplified again in the sentence above.




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wadaye said View Post
ASSK has said enough in English about there not being ethnic cleansing, about reports of human rights abuses being exaggerated, about how the use of the word Rohingya causes violence, in appointing officers of the military to investigate, and so on, for honest observers who look into the situation to see that her actions are partisan in the conflict.
So you say, but all of these claims you've made a dozen times and have ignored critique of. If your claims are not robust enough to stand up to criticism, then using them to accuse someone of genocide is vicious and deranged.



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wadaye said View Post
Edit: i should not have said conflict. Its a massacre of civilians, not a conflict. Its ASSK who continues to refer to it as a conflict.
Of course it's a conflict, regardless of the balance of power.



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wadaye said View Post
Spearthrowe, In relation to not using the word Rohingya, do you think it would have saved the Jews of Europe if other governments and some nazi business leader stopped using the word "Jew"?
You are using mendacious discourse repeatedly - this, once again, is stonewalling. I addressed this bollocks the first time you erected it, and so did DanDare. You're trying to argue from the outcome which hasn't actually happened yet. Whether it has the effect of stopping all violence or not is irrelevant - if it stops even one incident of violence then it's a pro.

Also, you're reiterating a bunch of bullshit claims, such as that Aung San Suu Kyi has the same kind of political power as Hitler. This is just a foolish mistake on your part when you've been informed of the contrary many times and you keep stonewalling. When you base your claims on a functional ignorance of a situation, your claims can only be right be chance, not by design.

However, if an important person in Nazi Germany had publicly said that we shouldn't call them Jews, we should call them Germans, it would be hard to see how that was nefarious - you know, like how you see that as nefarious in the absence of logic, how you simply declare it to be so then start lashing out at people who disagree.



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wadaye said View Post
Edit 2
One more thing . ASSK says in the Channel News Asia video linked above that the police in Rakhine are under her civil government's control and they are working very well with the military to bring calm in Rakhine. Thats a direct admission of complicity in the actions going on there.
No, it's another delusional non-sequitur. You are performing the same stupid stunt over and over where you take an incident that is contrary or irrelevant to your spiel, then simply declare that it supports your bizarre and contrived reasoning.

When your reasoning is shown wrong, repeating it doesn't make it better - it just shows that you won't learn.
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  #278  
Old 11th February 2017, 11:30 AM
Spearthrower Spearthrower is offline
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Default Re: Does Aung San Suu Kyi condone genocide?

Incidentally, I think it worth highlighting how you keep citing sources that are a year or more old but don't mention that.

Again, as you routinely fail to understand such points - when it comes to current affairs, a lot can happen in a year, so an opinion piece based on events that haven't happened yet is, I would suggest, a transparently desperate attempt to go looking for anything that will support your position.

As I am going to be away for a week, and I can't imagine the shit stacking is going to cease during that time, let me leave a last precis.

The issue in this thread is not about the attacks on the Rohingya (even though it should be) which all agree on and which all could discuss with respect to facts and evidence. The issue in this thread has been made wholly by you Wadaye, and you have kept it on track by repeating the same shit ad nauseum. It's about your willfully contrived claims about Aung San Suu Kyi's nefarious agenda, it's about the contrived and contorted argumentation you have offered up to abuse her, and eventually to do the same to me. It's about how a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

The reason why there's no discussion here is because it's not a fact-based thread where we discuss the actual issue, it's a fantasy based thread where you've obliged everyone to discuss a non-issue, the content of your navel.

Now, perhaps - just perhaps, you do possess some actual care for the people being targeted (I am finding it harder to believe by the page) and if that's the case, you might want to direct more of your energies towards drawing together the best available sources explaining that, rather than your one man mission to make up fantasy scenarios, declare them as real, and use them to blame a woman for the actions of the powerful and vicious military in her country.
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  #279  
Old 11th February 2017, 03:32 PM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: Does Aung San Suu Kyi condone genocide?

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Spearthrower said View Post
Incidentally, I think it worth highlighting how you keep citing sources that are a year or more old but don't mention that.

Again, as you routinely fail to understand such points - when it comes to current affairs, a lot can happen in a year, so an opinion piece based on events that haven't happened yet is, I would suggest, a transparently desperate attempt to go looking for anything that will support your position.

As I am going to be away for a week, and I can't imagine the shit stacking is going to cease during that time, let me leave a last precis.

The issue in this thread is not about the attacks on the Rohingya (even though it should be) which all agree on and which all could discuss with respect to facts and evidence. The issue in this thread has been made wholly by you Wadaye, and you have kept it on track by repeating the same shit ad nauseum. It's about your willfully contrived claims about Aung San Suu Kyi's nefarious agenda, it's about the contrived and contorted argumentation you have offered up to abuse her, and eventually to do the same to me. It's about how a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

The reason why there's no discussion here is because it's not a fact-based thread where we discuss the actual issue, it's a fantasy based thread where you've obliged everyone to discuss a non-issue, the content of your navel.

Now, perhaps - just perhaps, you do possess some actual care for the people being targeted (I am finding it harder to believe by the page) and if that's the case, you might want to direct more of your energies towards drawing together the best available sources explaining that, rather than your one man mission to make up fantasy scenarios, declare them as real, and use them to blame a woman for the actions of the powerful and vicious military in her country.
If you will stop being an apologist for a denialist then maybe more attention can be made to the issue. Nonetheless one has simply to look into the issue to see that notwithstanding the repeated denials by ASSK, and her through gritted teeth promise that the atrocities raised by the UN will be investigated (they would say that, wouldn't they), to see that contrary to the claims made by ASSK to Channel News Asia on 2 December 2016, the reports of atrocities, ethnic cleansing and genocide are not exaggerated.

As for your claim, made as always without any evidence, that the translation made by Haikal Mansor here of ASSK's speech in Singapore on 2 December 2016 is fake, I would note that this blogger is regularly reposted by Rohingya Blogger.

As it turns out the Rohingya Blogger has been more accurate in identifying crimes in Rakhine State than the denials of ASSK and the Myanmar Government.

As his translation has not otherwise been disputed on the web, and has been accepted by other Burmese people such as Maung Zarni, I have no reason to doubt at least the gist of the translation.

That ASSK would dismiss the reports of Genocide as being fabricated, in Burmese language conference is completely consistent with her statements in English in 2013 that there is no ethnic cleansing, and to Channel News Asia that the reports of atrocities are exaggerated and counter-productive, and that the military is observing the rule of law.

So here we have the Rohingya Blogger laying blame at the feet of ASSK for the contents of her press release as being full of lies;

http://www.rohingyablogger.com/2017/...-too-many.html
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  #280  
Old 11th February 2017, 03:36 PM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: Does Aung San Suu Kyi condone genocide?

According to your logic ST, Malala is also being vicious in criticising ASSK in her open letter with the other Nobel Laureates

Quote:
The open letter said that “despite repeated appeals to Daw Aung San Suu Kyi we are frustrated that she has not taken any initiative to ensure full and equal citizenship rights of the Rohingyas. Daw Suu Kyi is the leader and is the one with the primary responsibility to lead, and lead with courage, humanity and compassion.”
https://www.facebook.com/Professor.M...372943802283:0

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nsing-rohingya
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