Go Back   AFA Forums > Secularism and Social Issues > Politics

Politics Political issues which help or hinder our society

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #3001  
Old 14th December 2017, 02:49 PM
stevebrooks stevebrooks is offline
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,031
Default Re: President Donald Trump

Quote:
Darwinsbulldog said View Post
There were some good Republicans [not an oxymoron in this case] who are so disgusted with Trump and Moore they actively campaigned for Democrat Doug Jones!

Some of the [lay] Republicans and those in the House are not beyond redemption. Needles to say, some were subject to death threats.

It seems an odd thing to say from a person who finds Trump so detestable, but I think the best result for the democrats would be for Trump to remain president until the next election and for the democrats to take control of the both houses to minimise damage.


The thing is, if Trump is kicked out or forced to retire we get the martyr situation, his followers will always believe he was unfairly removed and could have MAGA if given the chance. If he remains as president but achieves essentially nothing sure some of his followers will remain loyal, but a lot of people will see a useless leader, one who couldn't even unite republicans, let alone America, and they will think twice next time a Trump clone appears, because one will one day.


I doubt the Republicans will recover from this disaster for decades, oh they will still be there, but the ultra-conservatives will almost certainly split, in fact it looks like a split party already and if they ever manage to get back in power it will be a different America they are dealing with, a more sensible one I hope. Sometimes we need a kick in the pants to see the wrongness of our direction, there may be MAG eventually, but not under this fool.
__________________
From the mouth of a seven year old: "When you're you're dead, you don't go anywhere!"
Reply With Quote
Like Blue Lightning liked this post
  #3002  
Old 14th December 2017, 02:58 PM
Darwinsbulldog's Avatar
Darwinsbulldog Darwinsbulldog is online now
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Perth
Posts: 18,659
Default Re: President Donald Trump

Quote:
stevebrooks said View Post
It seems an odd thing to say from a person who finds Trump so detestable, but I think the best result for the democrats would be for Trump to remain president until the next election and for the democrats to take control of the both houses to minimise damage.


The thing is, if Trump is kicked out or forced to retire we get the martyr situation, his followers will always believe he was unfairly removed and could have MAGA if given the chance. If he remains as president but achieves essentially nothing sure some of his followers will remain loyal, but a lot of people will see a useless leader, one who couldn't even unite republicans, let alone America, and they will think twice next time a Trump clone appears, because one will one day.


I doubt the Republicans will recover from this disaster for decades, oh they will still be there, but the ultra-conservatives will almost certainly split, in fact it looks like a split party already and if they ever manage to get back in power it will be a different America they are dealing with, a more sensible one I hope. Sometimes we need a kick in the pants to see the wrongness of our direction, there may be MAG eventually, but not under this fool.
I do detest Trump. And I don't agree with most things republicans stand for, at least in the modern context. But I think it is refreshing that some Republicans are waking up. And I don't think the USA [or the rest of the world] will benefit from a totally crushed Republican party, unless some replacement becomes available to keep the Democrats honest.

And of course the Democratic party has it's faults too.
__________________
Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.
Reply With Quote
Like Blue Lightning liked this post
  #3003  
Old 14th December 2017, 03:13 PM
bruce1937's Avatar
bruce1937 bruce1937 is online now
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Kilmore
Posts: 2,712
Default Re: President Donald Trump

Please excuse my ignorance but what is "MAGA" and "MAG"?
__________________
The meaning of your life, is what you choose to make it.
Reply With Quote
  #3004  
Old 14th December 2017, 03:23 PM
The Irreverent Mr Black's Avatar
The Irreverent Mr Black The Irreverent Mr Black is offline
Today is today. Tomorrow is uncertain.
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Toontown
Posts: 5,232
Default Re: President Donald Trump

Quote:
bruce1937 said View Post
Please excuse my ignorance but what is "MAGA" and "MAG"?
Make America Hate Great Again
__________________

vibrators are WRONG and unnatural the bible said adam and eve not florence and the machine
Becky (@SAlNTKARDASHIAN) May 18, 2016

Reply With Quote
Thank bruce1937, yowie thanked this post
  #3005  
Old 14th December 2017, 04:48 PM
pipbarber's Avatar
pipbarber pipbarber is offline
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,073
Default Re: President Donald Trump

@SB
I agree Steve, regarding the benefits of Trump seeing out his term but with two caveats.

1. He doesnt start a major war
2. He doesnt irrevocably trash the environment

...oh and 3. He doesnt win again in 2020!
__________________
Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Reply With Quote
  #3006  
Old 14th December 2017, 05:10 PM
Darwinsbulldog's Avatar
Darwinsbulldog Darwinsbulldog is online now
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Perth
Posts: 18,659
Default Re: President Donald Trump

Quote:
pipbarber said View Post
@SB
I agree Steve, regarding the benefits of Trump seeing out his term but with two caveats.

1. He doesnt start a major war
2. He doesnt irrevocably trash the environment

...oh and 3. He doesnt win again in 2020!
But, however much we want Trumpism and Tea-Party ism and other shit to be consigned to the trash-bin of history, Trump is a clear and present danger NOW.

Nuclear weapons are bad enough, but using them depends on the side which is the LEAST stable.

So on one side we have Kim Jong-un, and on the other, Donald Trump. Both are nut-jobs, and so are most of their advisers, as far as I can tell.

During the decades of the cold war the USA and USSR both had a few shitty leaders. But since we survived, I am guessing both sides had influential advisors with some common sense.

I am guessing the North Korean system does not reward sceptics very well. Nor does the Trump Administration.
__________________
Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.
Reply With Quote
Like Blue Lightning liked this post
  #3007  
Old 14th December 2017, 05:17 PM
pipbarber's Avatar
pipbarber pipbarber is offline
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,073
Default Re: President Donald Trump

I think the military would refuse a nuke on NK. A link somewhere up thread to military discussion over how to legally refuse a Whitehouse order attest to that.

Last few days i've been feeling a little more relaxed about NK-US war, i'm thinking its very unlikely, for now anyway.
__________________
Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Reply With Quote
  #3008  
Old 14th December 2017, 06:06 PM
Darwinsbulldog's Avatar
Darwinsbulldog Darwinsbulldog is online now
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Perth
Posts: 18,659
Default Re: President Donald Trump

Quote:
pipbarber said View Post
I think the military would refuse a nuke on NK. A link somewhere up thread to military discussion over how to legally refuse a Whitehouse order attest to that.

Last few days i've been feeling a little more relaxed about NK-US war, i'm thinking its very unlikely, for now anyway.
Hmmm.

Lt.Col. Harold L. Hering?

The "two-man" rule applies at the very top of the executive, which would mean if trump gave a launch order, it would have to be the Secretary of defence, or in the event of fatalities, some in the chain of succession.

Maybe for a First strike, I might agree with you. But if NK hit the USA with nukes in a first strike of their own? I am not so sure.

Of course, any officer who questioned Trump's sanity would be right, but probably dismissed or even shot if the USA was at condition Snapcount/Skyfall. [The war condition more serious than Defcon One!]
__________________
Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.
Reply With Quote
  #3009  
Old 14th December 2017, 06:06 PM
stevebrooks stevebrooks is offline
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,031
Default Re: President Donald Trump

Quote:
bruce1937 said View Post
Please excuse my ignorance but what is "MAGA" and "MAG"?
Just to clarify, Trump uses MAGA for "Make America Great Again" but some republicans, particularly the one who just lost an election, think the last time America was great was when they had slavery! So I used MAG, Make America Great, because it appears that america has never been great if we go by some republican's opinions!
__________________
From the mouth of a seven year old: "When you're you're dead, you don't go anywhere!"
Reply With Quote
Thank bruce1937 thanked this post
  #3010  
Old 14th December 2017, 07:00 PM
Blue Lightning's Avatar
Blue Lightning Blue Lightning is offline
"Mr Charles Darwin had the gall to ask"
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 6,104
Default Re: President Donald Trump

Quote:
pipbarber said View Post
I think the military would refuse a nuke on NK. A link somewhere up thread to military discussion over how to legally refuse a Whitehouse order attest to that.
At the higher levels of the US military, that's possible.

Go the Deep State!

Yet, note DBD's point, below*.

Quote:
pipbarber said View Post
Last few days i've been feeling a little more relaxed about NK-US war, i'm thinking its very unlikely, for now anyway.
I disagree. I think a war is something like a 50% chance. Especially when you factor in the effect of miscalculations and misunderstandings, which, in this case, could easily get wildly out of control very quickly.

Then there is the unfitness for office at the very top of both nations to consider. Yikes.

At the very top, at least in Trump's case, "miscalculation" may not be the best term. "Blundering" may be more accurate.

Also, when things start to go really badly on the domestic scene for Trump, which I think is more or less inevitable, the temptation of looking for a foreign distraction only increases.



Quote:
Darwinsbulldog said View Post

Hmmm.

Lt.Col. Harold L. Hering?
* Indeed.

Quote:
Darwinsbulldog said View Post
The "two-man" rule applies at the very top of the executive, which would mean if trump gave a launch order, it would have to be the Secretary of defence, or in the event of fatalities, some in the chain of succession.

Maybe for a First strike, I might agree with you.
See above link.

Quote:
Darwinsbulldog said View Post
But if NK hit the USA with nukes in a first strike of their own? I am not so sure ...
If NK ever launches a nuclear weapon at the US, IMO, all bets are off.

Even if NK strikes South Korea or Japan, things may well get very bad very quickly.
__________________
"Just stick to the idea that science is just about making descriptive models of natural phenomena, whose emergent predictions are tested to destruction" - Woof!
"Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves" - Richard Feynman
Reply With Quote
Like Darwinsbulldog liked this post
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 09:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.