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Pseudoscience and anti-science Debunking Creationism, Homoeopathy etc

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  #41  
Old 14th December 2017, 11:17 AM
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Darwinsbulldog Darwinsbulldog is offline
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Default Re: anti-vaxxers...again

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Strato said View Post
And of course Darwinsbulldog assumes you understand that being surrounded by people who are immune, the vulnerable baby isn't exposed, even though it is not immunised itself, because the horrible pathogen gets no opportunity to proliferate.

When it does it is called an epidemic. Days of dearth.
I should have said the important thing in herd immunity is that the people should not be carriers of course. One is not always the same as the other, and I am not sure in the case of polio.
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Old 14th December 2017, 01:21 PM
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Default Re: anti-vaxxers...again

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Strato said View Post
And of course Darwinsbulldog assumes you understand that being surrounded by people who are immune, the vulnerable baby isn't exposed, even though it is not immunised itself, because the horrible pathogen gets no opportunity to proliferate.

When it does it is called an epidemic. Days of dearth.

Even then, yes even then, the individual anti-vaxxer wouldn't be such an issue because a small percentage of vaccine refusers wouldn't ordinarily amount to much. A single non-vaccinated child because of belief wouldn't be different to a single non-vaccinated child due to, say, lowered immune response due to medical treatment or illness. Society could afford to support a small percentage of non-vaccinated, if it wasn't for one little foible of the anti-vaxxers.


They insist on gathering in large groups of non-vaccinated people, for instance the non-vaccinated kindys, the non-vaccinated playgroups, it's as if they actually plan it all out to specifically sabotage herd immunity. Then it only takes one non-vaccinated child in a non-vaccinated playgroup with a serious disease to infect the rest. All of a sudden we have an entire herd of diseased children wandering around, going to school or the shops or a regular playground and it's off.


Herd immunity would still do a good job even at a lower percentage at stopping the spread of disease if only the non-vaccinated didn't specifically act to counter its effects. Of course if a child who is unable to be vaccinated due to medical conditions dies from contact with non-vaccinated child this is still a serious thing and should be treated as such by society, which is why children without valid immunisation records should be banned from schools, kindy's, playgrounds, shopping centres etc, although granted shopping centres and playgrounds are hard ones to monitor.
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  #43  
Old 14th December 2017, 02:07 PM
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Default Re: anti-vaxxers...again

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stevebrooks said View Post
Even then, yes even then, the individual anti-vaxxer wouldn't be such an issue because a small percentage of vaccine refusers wouldn't ordinarily amount to much. A single non-vaccinated child because of belief wouldn't be different to a single non-vaccinated child due to, say, lowered immune response due to medical treatment or illness. Society could afford to support a small percentage of non-vaccinated, if it wasn't for one little foible of the anti-vaxxers.


They insist on gathering in large groups of non-vaccinated people, for instance the non-vaccinated kindys, the non-vaccinated playgroups, it's as if they actually plan it all out to specifically sabotage herd immunity. Then it only takes one non-vaccinated child in a non-vaccinated playgroup with a serious disease to infect the rest. All of a sudden we have an entire herd of diseased children wandering around, going to school or the shops or a regular playground and it's off.


Herd immunity would still do a good job even at a lower percentage at stopping the spread of disease if only the non-vaccinated didn't specifically act to counter its effects. Of course if a child who is unable to be vaccinated due to medical conditions dies from contact with non-vaccinated child this is still a serious thing and should be treated as such by society, which is why children without valid immunisation records should be banned from schools, kindy's, playgrounds, shopping centres etc, although granted shopping centres and playgrounds are hard ones to monitor.
Sorry, but I am a little to the right of Genghis Khan on the issue of public health. Education programs yes, but in the final analysis Herd Immunity should be protected at all costs from well meaning [or non-well meaning] anti-vaxx idiots.

Communicable pathogens of serious [and often fatal] medical consequences are Weapons Of Mass Destruction, whatever the intent. So I piss on the rights of someone who wants to be an idiot, and puts society at risk because of it. Compulsory vaccination [if necessary]. Herd immunity is the only weapon we have against disease for people [especially infants] who have a medical reason not to be vaccinated.

Governments have sent millions of people to their deaths in questionable wars, and yet people are squeamish about making people have available medical protections that will protect not only them, but the whole society from a world of hurt.

If necessary, charge them under the terrorism act, but we need these drugs in bodies, so I don't give a fuck about their freedoms and human rights because they are pissing on the rest of us, and are a clear and present danger to all.
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  #44  
Old 14th December 2017, 06:12 PM
stevebrooks stevebrooks is offline
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Default Re: anti-vaxxers...again

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Darwinsbulldog said View Post
Sorry, but I am a little to the right of Genghis Khan on the issue of public health.
I'm not inclined to disagree DB, but like the one child policy in china, we are never going to get every single one of them, and herd immunity would still work if we missed some is what I mean. It should be child endangerment at least to not properly vaccinate your child, but I am concerned that children who can't be immunised would be caught up because, essentially, people are stupid, I should know I am one of them. Some people, if we came down to hard on it, may treat children who can't be immunised badly because they can't tell the different between a medical exemption and anti-vaxx idiocy.
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  #45  
Old 14th December 2017, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: anti-vaxxers...again

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stevebrooks said View Post
I'm not inclined to disagree DB, but like the one child policy in china, we are never going to get every single one of them, and herd immunity would still work if we missed some is what I mean. It should be child endangerment at least to not properly vaccinate your child, but I am concerned that children who can't be immunised would be caught up because, essentially, people are stupid, I should know I am one of them. Some people, if we came down to hard on it, may treat children who can't be immunised badly because they can't tell the different between a medical exemption and anti-vaxx idiocy.
Something in the back of my mind told me to google Genghis Khan and public health. An then I remembered.

No, I don't want to father the world!

I am stupid. But anti-vaxxers really piss me off.
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