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  #61  
Old 11th October 2017, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

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bruce1937 said View Post
One way that may appeal to the guvnmnt would be to have to pay an incremental registration fee for guns, maybe double each time?
1 gun $100, 2 guns $200, 3 guns $400 etc.
I like this idea, up to a maximum of some number though because if you have a million bucks floating around it won’t matter and to illustrate that, the Vegas shooter was very wealthy I believe.
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  #62  
Old 11th October 2017, 05:19 PM
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Default Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Actually I should have made that compounding as well
ie 1st gun $100, 2nd gun another $200, 3rd gun another $400 etc.
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  #63  
Old 11th October 2017, 05:48 PM
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Default Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

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pipbarber said View Post
I like this idea, up to a maximum of some number though because if you have a million bucks floating around it won’t matter and to illustrate that, the Vegas shooter was very wealthy I believe.
The Las Vegas shooter had 72 guns, you are looking at over $1.6b in this mathematical sequence to just own 25 guns. He could have all the money in the world and not be able to buy 72 guns.

In practice I would just say, screw that, if you don't have a reason to own a gun except for self defense then you can at the most two, a pistol of some sort and a non-automatic rifle of some sort! That's it!
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  #64  
Old 11th October 2017, 05:51 PM
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Default Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Self defense isn't a valid reason to own a gun.
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  #65  
Old 11th October 2017, 06:07 PM
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Default Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

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Self defense isn't a valid reason to own a gun.
One is reminded of back in the late 90s, when it was about to become much harder to own a certain kind of rapid-fire shotgun.

A certain unlovely, wealthy, person I knew went through elaborate hypotheticals in a letter to the regulating authority to try and justify having one: "I might be flying in my plane, and be travelling over crocodile country, and I might be forced down, and I might have to fight the beasts off at close quarters" or something very similar.

He mostly travelled between regional hubs and capitals by plane, and infrequently at that.

It was for Freudian reasons he wanted that gun. I have no doubt whatsoever.
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  #66  
Old 11th October 2017, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

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The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
Quote:
Loki said View Post
Self defense isn't a valid reason to own a gun.
One is reminded of back in the late 90s, when it was about to become much harder to own a certain kind of rapid-fire shotgun.

A certain unlovely, wealthy, person I knew went through elaborate hypotheticals in a letter to the regulating authority to try and justify having one: "I might be flying in my plane, and be travelling over crocodile country, and I might be forced down, and I might have to fight the beasts off at close quarters" or something very similar.

He mostly travelled between regional hubs and capitals by plane, and infrequently at that.

It was for Freudian reasons he wanted that gun. I have no doubt whatsoever.

What he needed was one of them bump stocks what are all the rage.

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  #67  
Old 12th October 2017, 02:57 AM
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Default Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

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Loki said View Post
Self defense isn't a valid reason to own a gun.
I can think of one, and only one, valid reason to own a gun. Funnily enough, no advocate for private gun ownership has ever evinced it as an argument.
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  #68  
Old 12th October 2017, 05:39 AM
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Default Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

There was discussion on ABC Radio about the number of guns that people owned in NSW yesterday due to the fact that some people owned 300 or so. One was a hunter and claimed that he needed different guns for different prey, but off the top of my head I can think that should cover easily less than 10 guns. Ultimately, how many different .223 guns do you need to cover different prey? I know that under licence, a .22 isn't sufficient to use against a kangaroo so I do get the different guns, but I ran out before 5.

I would like to see a cap on the number of guns an individual can own, but allow it to go above if there is a valid reason. It would not surprise me if there are pest control people in western NSW who do legitimately need more than 10, but I can't see a reason for someone in say North Sydney needing more than 10.
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  #69  
Old 12th October 2017, 10:15 AM
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Default Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

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Loki said View Post
Self defense isn't a valid reason to own a gun.
I think it is, except that such a reason is mis-used in 99+ % of cases. The other main problem with it is that owners with guns make owners without guns feel insecure, and justifiably so.

I think the main thing in self defence is the concept of "reasonable force". If a police officer for example, shot someone even though no clear and present danger existed in self defence or the defence of the community, that would be unreasonable force, and probably unlawful killing, or even murder depending on the circumstances.

Defence forces are [at least nominally] to protect nation from armed aggression, and of course, like personal self-defence, this is almost always abused.

The other trouble with having a "right", [such as the right to bear arms] is that although people must have equal consideration before the law, some people are never stable enough to own firearms, and many people who are mentally stable enough to own arms may not be in that condition at all times.

But in itself, the right to self defence strongly implies the right to have the means to do so, which implies arms or other weapons.

As with many "individual" vs social rights, Garratt Hardin's "tragedy of the commons" comes into play. At the personal level of gun ownership, or at the level of nation-states.

So as with most rights, the balance of individual vs community rights must sensibly implemented. In effect, gun ownership should be a privilege rather than a right, and the onus of proof should be on the gun owner. If the community is NOT assured that the gun owner is a fit and proper person to own a gun, then he/she cannot own one.

This implies some sort of licencing system, where trust should be earned rather than assumed.

As far as I am concerned, I dislike the concept of reasonable excuse or purpose, for if someone is authorised to possess a weapon, they may use it for any legal purpose they see fit.

However, this would only apply to -say- the first two weapons owned. The accumulation of an arsenal would put an onus of proof on the owner as to purpose.

I don't see any point in restricting guns to gun clubs, because that just makes for a juicier target for professional gun thieves. Proper gun safes etc in the home should be sufficient.

What is required is safer gun design along military lines as far as disassembly goes.

Military style weapons are actually far safer than most civilian firearms in that the gun, action, and magazines/ammo can be stored separately and easily.

When I owned such guns I would defy anyone to be able to find my guns and put them into usable state, including finding and breaking into all three safes!

But the root of all these problems, is getting and maintaining a government and armed forces and police etc that can earn and maintain our trust. The the individual would have very little reason to think of the government as a hostile force, and hence very little need to armed self defence.
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  #70  
Old 12th October 2017, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

When is a terrorist not a "terrorist"? When he's white, American, and cis/het.

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IT’S STRANGE HOW some things really catch on and go viral and others don’t. These days, nothing quite makes a story blow up — no pun intended — like the president’s fixation with it. That’s why it’s so peculiar that what sure looks like an attempted terrorist attack was narrowly thwarted at an American airport this past Friday without so much as peep from Donald Trump about it. No tweets. No nicknames for the alleged would-be-terrorist. Nothing. You’ll see why in a minute.

On past Friday morning, at 12:39 a.m., security footage from the Asheville Regional Airport in North Carolina showed a man walking through the front doors wearing black clothing and a black cap, while carrying a bag. “Based on a review of the video, the individual walked near the entrance to the terminal, went out of sight momentarily, and was then seen departing the area without the bag,” according to the criminal complaint.

Following the Transportation Security Administration’s protocols, airport security allowed a bomb dog to sniff the bag for explosives and the dog signaled to the team the presence of dangerous materials in the bag. The concourse was then shut down. The street leading to the airport was shut down. And Asheville Regional Airport officials found themselves in a dangerous emergency situation.

What investigators eventually found in the bag was AN/FO (Ammonium Nitrate/Fuel Oil) explosives that, according to the criminal complaint, have been used “in a number of terrorist-related incidents around the world. When AN/FO comes into contact with a flame or other ignition source it explodes violently. Nails or ball bearings are often items added to the device so as to increase the devastation inflicted by the explosion.”

In fact, sharp nails and bullets were found in this improvised explosive device. Whoever built it designed the bomb to cause horrific bodily harm. Before disarming it, authorities discovered that the alarm attached to it was scheduled to go off at 6:00 a.m. that morning just as a fresh round of travelers was scheduled to arrive at the airport.

The man who planted it, it turns out, openly admitted to authorities that he was “preparing to fight a war on U.S. soil” and that this bomb was but one part of that war.
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Last edited by The Irreverent Mr Black; 12th October 2017 at 11:46 AM. Reason: extraneous bits
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