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  #41  
Old 8th October 2017, 08:40 AM
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Default Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting


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  #42  
Old 8th October 2017, 10:59 AM
stevebrooks stevebrooks is offline
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Quote:
pipbarber said View Post
Arenít we all, to some degree? Trump has to last til the end of his term, the alternatives are worse, alas, and imo.

They may indeed be, but will any of them charge us straight into a nuclear war? Trump has stated that that, "there is only one solution."


Comparisons have been made to Hitler for Muslim Genocide on another thread, here we go again. If there is only one solution surely that's a "final solution"?


Quote:
US President Donald Trump said that diplomatic efforts with North Korea have consistently failed, adding that ďonly one thing will work.Ē

We can survive someone who is just a dick, but can we survive someone who is a dick with suicidal tendencies? The Republican party has demonstrated time and again when they get in power that they aren't suitable to run the country, there's always a big backlash at the next election, however it may be even worse this time;


Quote:
The decline in optimism about the nationís trajectory is particularly pronounced among Republicans. In June, 60 per cent of Republicans said the country was headed in the right direction; now itís just 44 per cent.


The broader picture for the president is grim, too. Nearly 70 per cent of Americans say Trump isnít level-headed, and majorities say heís not honest or a strong leader. More than 60 per cent disapprove of how he is handling race relations, foreign policy and immigration, among other issues. Overall, 67 per cent of Americans disapprove of the job Trump is doing in office, including about one-third of Republicans.

So that's down to 44% for his own people.


It's unlikely the madman in Pyongyang would ever pre-emptively launch a nuclear attack against another country, that would be suicide, it's much more likely to be a conventional war, only if it looks like complete defeat with soldiers marching on Pyongyang is it likely as a last desperate attempt to deflect defeat. NK could go on for decades exactly as it is, yes sad for the people trapped inside, but it does mean plenty of time for another solution to be worked out. I am not sure which is the bigger madman, the one developing nuclear weapons are the one likely to launch them. Oh yes, they aren't the same person!
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  #43  
Old 8th October 2017, 11:18 AM
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Default Las Vegas Mass Shooting

If I remember rightly Clinton was president when columbine happened, Obama when it was sandy hook.
The party in power seems to have little to do with Americaís gun problems at home. Regardless of what Trump and NK do, Americans will continue to shoot each other.
300,000,000 guns.
Three hundred million.
Thatís one hell of a buy back.
Even if trump disappeared and the gun lobby disappeared those guns would still be there.
I used to think, in my naive little fishie brain ďhow could they let this happen again?Ē
But America didnít ďletĒ this happen, like some accident waiting to happen that they missed.
They made it happen. They didnít allow it to happen, they ensured it would.
And it will again. And again. Itís not a political debate any more. Thereís 2/8 of fuck all even a willing political party could do about it, because itís not the politicians.
Itís the people.
Three. Hundred. Million. Guns.
In the hands of the people.
Americaís scary army isnít in Syria or Afghanistan. Itís not set to deal with NK.
Itís at home.
The blame for this doesnít lie with the politicians.
It lies with the people.


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  #44  
Old 8th October 2017, 11:31 AM
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Default Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

@steve.
I agree that it is unlikely that NK would start an active war, to do so would be very out of character, not to mention suicidal. So it’s just Trump bluster until he demands what i’m sure would be termed a preemptive strike but it doesn’t seem to me that Tillerson or sections of the military are keen on that. It’s quite possible this soap opera will just be on air for the next 3 years and nothing will happen - that’s probably best case scenario.

For now, it’s ridiculous to liken Trump to Hitler. Trump has not directly killed anyone, he is constrained by the various estates of power and faces re-election in 3 years. ‘The final solution,’ of Nazi germany shouldn’t be likened to Trump’s statement regarding NK, in my view. They’re worlds apart. Of course this could change contingent to developments.
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  #45  
Old 8th October 2017, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Quote:
Mjt said View Post
If I remember rightly Clinton was president when columbine happened, Obama when it was sandy hook.
The party in power seems to have little to do with Americaís gun problems at home. Regardless of what Trump and NK do, Americans will continue to shoot each other.
300,000,000 guns.
Three hundred million.
Thatís one hell of a buy back.
Even if trump disappeared and the gun lobby disappeared those guns would still be there.
I used to think, in my naive little fishie brain ďhow could they let this happen again?Ē
But America didnít ďletĒ this happen, like some accident waiting to happen that they missed.
They made it happen. They didnít allow it to happen, they ensured it would.
And it will again. And again. Itís not a political debate any more. Thereís 2/8 of fuck all even a willing political party could do about it, because itís not the politicians.
Itís the people.
Three. Hundred. Million. Guns.
In the hands of the people.
Americaís scary army isnít in Syria or Afghanistan. Itís not set to deal with NK.
Itís at home.
The blame for this doesnít lie with the politicians.
It lies with the people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Polls are consistently showing a fairly large majority of USians in favour of gun control, to varying levels of control.

So it's not even the people. It's a small but very vocal subset of the people. As usual for most issues.
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  #46  
Old 8th October 2017, 01:14 PM
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Default Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Linky

Quote:
First rule about gun club: you’re not allowed to leave gun club.

A Phoenix man who posted pictures on Facebook giving his guns over to local police says he received multiple death threats after the post went viral. The original post, which has since been deleted, showed 36-year-old Jonathan Pring posing with his tactical rifle, then handing a bag of guns to the officer.

Pring, a dual citizen of the US and Britain, said he wanted to make a change after the shooting deaths of 58 people in Las Vegas on October 1. The post is still circulating around Facebook, garnering more threats from people who say Pring should be shot and some who shared his home address to the social media site, according to the Phoenix New Times.

...

Pring’s guns are likely to be resold due to an Arizona state law forcing local police departments to resell turned-in firearms, instead of destroying them.
Root me boot.
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  #47  
Old 8th October 2017, 01:36 PM
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LadyGreen LadyGreen is offline
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Default Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Quote:
The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
Linky

Root me boot.
So they threaten to murder someone who has changed their opinion on guns because of all the murders. Wow they literally provide a good argument for stricter rules. Pro tip gun nuts: intimidating us will only convince us that you shouldnt have a gun.

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  #48  
Old 8th October 2017, 02:22 PM
stevebrooks stevebrooks is offline
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Default Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Quote:
pipbarber said View Post
@steve.
I agree that it is unlikely that NK would start an active war, to do so would be very out of character, not to mention suicidal. So itís just Trump bluster until he demands what iím sure would be termed a preemptive strike but it doesnít seem to me that Tillerson or sections of the military are keen on that. Itís quite possible this soap opera will just be on air for the next 3 years and nothing will happen - thatís probably best case scenario.

For now, itís ridiculous to liken Trump to Hitler. Trump has not directly killed anyone, he is constrained by the various estates of power and faces re-election in 3 years. ĎThe final solution,í of Nazi germany shouldnít be likened to Trumpís statement regarding NK, in my view. Theyíre worlds apart. Of course this could change contingent to developments.

It's a valid argument, tell it to the citizens of Germany prior to the Third Reich, I suspect they thought the same!


I also don't think Hitler came to power with the express purpose, or indeed any thoughts at all, on forcing all the Jews into gas chambers and killing them. Sometimes our early actions dictate the course we take in the future, could you imagine Trump just turning around and saying he had changed his mind on his big beautiful wall for instance. Hitler started by blaming the Jews for Germany's woes, it got him into power, it led eventually to the gas chamber, once started some things are hard to stop. Where will trump's wall lead? Machine guns along the Mexican border maybe?


It's up to the American people to prevent anything extraordinarily bad happening, to my mind there are just to many of them actually applauding every time Trump does something stupid.


On the other hand, unlike Hitler's Germany there are 300m guns spread around the USA, it might be harder to do a Hitler re-enactment than I am imagining. The US, if anything, is immensely unpredictable, we might even see the backlash against Trump lead to a better USA, here's hoping.
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  #49  
Old 9th October 2017, 12:27 PM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Quote:
Mjt said View Post
If I remember rightly Clinton was president when columbine happened, Obama when it was sandy hook.
The party in power seems to have little to do with America’s gun problems at home. Regardless of what Trump and NK do, Americans will continue to shoot each other.
300,000,000 guns.
Three hundred million.
That’s one hell of a buy back.
Even if trump disappeared and the gun lobby disappeared those guns would still be there.
I used to think, in my naive little fishie brain “how could they let this happen again?”
But America didn’t “let” this happen, like some accident waiting to happen that they missed.
They made it happen. They didn’t allow it to happen, they ensured it would.
And it will again. And again. It’s not a political debate any more. There’s 2/8 of fuck all even a willing political party could do about it, because it’s not the politicians.
It’s the people.
Three. Hundred. Million. Guns.
In the hands of the people.
America’s scary army isn’t in Syria or Afghanistan. It’s not set to deal with NK.
It’s at home.
The blame for this doesn’t lie with the politicians.
It lies with the people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think if we come back to the land of the free thing, its about being free to own slaves. Owning slaves requires having access to lethal firepower. Its a form of mini-sovereignty, the power of life and death over others to subjugate or kill them. It doesn't sit well with modern notions of equality.
To justify it they go on necrophilic "hunting" which is little more than glorified snuff. Some of them lose the plot even more and do it to other humans. Some hunt afro americans. Some hunt anyone.
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  #50  
Old 9th October 2017, 06:20 PM
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142857 142857 is offline
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Default Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Quote:
stevebrooks said View Post
It's unlikely the madman in Pyongyang would ever pre-emptively launch a nuclear attack against another country, that would be suicide, it's much more likely to be a conventional war, only if it looks like complete defeat with soldiers marching on Pyongyang is it likely as a last desperate attempt to deflect defeat. NK could go on for decades exactly as it is, yes sad for the people trapped inside, but it does mean plenty of time for another solution to be worked out. I am not sure which is the bigger madman, the one developing nuclear weapons are the one likely to launch them. Oh yes, they aren't the same person!
Is Kim Jong Un a madman?

Look at it from his perspective. His country was named as part of an "Axis of Evil" by George W Bush. The devastating invasion of Iraq and the execution of its leader was plenty of motivation for Kim Jong Un to want to develop and demonstrate actual weapons of mass destruction that might make the United States think twice about taking military action against him.

Now having real, rather than imaginary, WOMD is one thing. But we all know how a nuclear exchange between NK and the USA turns out, and it isn't pretty for NK. In fact, nobody in their right mind with a small arsenal of nukes and a couple of wobbly rockets would dare use them against the USA and its allies.

So what's a frightened dictator to do?

Well, appearing completely unafraid of the USA's massive military superiority and also appearing batshit crazy enough to actually use those nukes at the slightest provocation would be the best idea I could think of. And, I suspect, Kim Jong Un and his advisors got that idea well before I did.

And I'm not usually a tin-foil-hat conspiracy theorist.
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