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Old 24th March 2017, 09:54 PM
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Default Re: Dissecting ptutt's assertions

Strato said View Post
ptutt, hello...

You related how you came to join the JWs, that you found agreement with them from your own reflections that the world is sinking ever further into moral corruption.

Can you defend this observation from history and upon what scholarly analysis of documented evidence is this assertion based?
To be fair, I don't think Ptutt said he joined the JoHos, merely that he studied with them.

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Old 24th March 2017, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: Dissecting ptutt's assertions

ptutt, I misquoted you, although I would conjecture that you do actually see the world as increasing in moral corruption.

The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
So, A,B, therefore Z? Please clarify if that's how you're going. (Include accounting for confirmation bias, if you can, just to be helpful.)
Did you read this on Confirmation Bias? When I first saw the term on the forum years ago I looked it up and read the article through.

ptutt said:
I'll give you some background...

Ever since young (about 5yrs old), with minimal instruction (we maybe talked about religion twice as a family that I can remember and I never went to church) I have had a sense of God's presence and who God is.
Everything will yield to a naturalistic explanation. I call this 'sense' you had, brain states. You entertained them, uncritically.

I received a Gideon's bible in high school and read it. I was deeply impacted by Jesus life and teaching.
The Gideons is a collective of Christians from all mainstream denominations dedicated to the placement of free bibles, funded by the members.

You were primed.

Ironically the Gideons would be troubled to learn you joined the JWs from being primed by reading a Gideon's Bible, some legit version (rolls eyes).

You were credulous. You were young, impressionable, suggestible perhaps, although inquiring, granted tentatively.

In my early 20's I saw the futility of life as it laid before me and sort(sic) deeper meaning and purpose and decided I should go to church.
Why did you see life as futile? Is this pessimism? What did you think of The Life of Brian or Monty Python and the Holy Grail back then and what delving did you do into books and contemporary music?

Then the JW's started visiting and I studied with them.
Don't look back, eh? The JWs are busily fishing in the hood. Bound to catch some unfortunates.

At that time I prayed for God to help me find the truth. Shortly after, my best friend, who was agnostic, had just started to be involved in bible study and asked me to join.
This is what The Irreverent Mr. Black was alluding to in the linky on confirmation bias, above.

I studied the bible with some of the guys from that church and agreed with the teaching and decided to commit my life to God.
What can you mean by 'agreed with the teachings?' What intellectual and educational position were you in to make such an independent ratification of all this?

Maybe here you are being exposed to concerted, in depth critique of it for the first time.

My nature is to always question. Question everything. I annoy people because they think I don't trust their knowledge, but I just seek to understand and I continue to prod until I do.
Do Christians really ask questions?

It requires intellectual humility to admit muddy and na´ve thinking in such an interrogative discussion situation as this one. I have seen such admitted to here though, many times. Not easy, but necessary. I have had to do it.

So, here I am. I have questions. I have questions in my own faith (that I don't seek answers here ). I have attempted to rationalise a naturalistic worldview, but I have questions.
How are you questioning your faith and the teachings? You have intimated nothing so far and say you don't intend to do so. Who do you consult, the elders?

I don't come here to convince anyone of anything. It's a discussion. It's a journey...I have no destination in mind. Hope we can mutually benefit along the way.
Isn't there a 'destination' really - enlightenment, knowledge, learning how to think and discern before you are too senile and then you're pushing up daisies?

Don't you go to a territory assigned to you at the Kingdom Hall, to witness? Isn't proselytising undertaken with the intent to convince?

You may rationalise such efforts in altruistic terms. Could it not rather be seen as predation upon the emotionally and intellectually vulnerable? These converts are disposed to believing that they have a soul. They are defenseless, credulous, possibly socially alienated. They all need a psychologist and psycho-education.

Your interlocutors here are not so vulnerable. Many have painfully worked their way out of the God and Christ's Bride delusion.

Do take this engagement seriously.
You have been kissing the hand of someone who is not circumcised - you are better off kissing a goat's arse.
Habib Huhsin Alathas.

Last edited by Strato; 24th March 2017 at 11:02 PM.
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