Discussing Islam on Facebook - Lil Help?

[ogham]

Like most religionists he will want to discuss his belief. Control the debate by asking what is he?, shia or sunni (simply, whether direct lineage from Mohammed was his best mate or a relative), then ask why he thinks the other is wrong. You can then sit back and watch him spin of his own accord. Some realize that, in the act of explaining it to an outsider, it will not make sense, and so see a fallacy in their reasoning. The next step is to show the link between (the) Ka'ba and it's forebear the pre-Mohammedan cult of Ba'al.

[Bolero]

Originally Posted by ogham

Like most religionists he will want to discuss his belief. Control the debate by asking what is he?, shia or sunni (simply, whether direct lineage from Mohammed was his best mate or a relative), then ask why he thinks the other is wrong. You can then sit back and watch him spin of his own accord. Some realize that, in the act of explaining it to an outsider, it will not make sense, and so see a fallacy in their reasoning. The next step is to show the link between (the) Ka'ba and it's forebear the pre-Mohammedan cult of Ba'al.

Believe me, if it comes to that, I will use this.

Not sure I want it to, though. I'm already over the whole thing. Was up way too late last night debating with this guy while watching The Walking Dead...had horrible Islamic Zombie dreams.

[ogham]

"while watching The Walking Dead...had horrible Islamic Zombie dreams"

Hehe. Yeah, gods and acolytes will do that to your dreams, not Zombies of course, as everyone knows they're nice guys, they've never harmed a soul.

[Bolero]

The latest:

Well since u asked me what I think about all of it is this:
I believe there is no god, as u believe so, ( thus I told u, u r on the half way to truth) but the complete story is there is no god but Allah. Am trying to be as good as any other practicing Muslim. I don’t want to be a scholar or a missionary of my religion because am not in the right position to carry out such a task.

Why Islam and why I believe in the existence of the only sole true God? I’ll tell u but before that I want to give some notations about god and religion –related issues. Firstly, if we say that a carpenter is the guy who makes things out of wood like doors. Now if he made a wooden door, we cannot say that the door’s attributes are as the same as the attributes of the carpenter. Meaning how possibly the creature equals the creator. This is a refutation to Christian friends who believe that the god is a human just like us! A human who was crucified to redeem humans’ sins forever!

Secondly, if we have an object like a door or a car, we know that this object was made by someone a human like u and me and this human is made by god u want to continue: who made god? Now as long as my knowledge could go far , I know u judge things by a beautiful scale ,which I do respect, or call it a logic. For example, u don’t believe in god because u can’t see him or touch him. Alright then lemme ask u, have u ever seen or touched ur soul (unless u don’t believe in the existence of soul too, rectify me if am wrong) of course u will answer like me “no” . then lets weigh things here according to ur logic; since u never seen or touched ur soul then u don’t have a soul?! I never seen god but he does exist through his many signs in this universe but am not going to name all these signs so that u wud say am just doing these kinds of gambits of IRF. Rather I will just remind u of one sign that most of the atheist scientists call it the theory of “Big Bang” which according to them happened in the nature accidentally.

Right lets come back to the examples of the door and the car. If I tell that one day I woke up and wanted to leave my room but I couldn’t find the door , and suddenly I saw pieces of wood come together and BANG they constituted a door. When I wanted to go to my workplace I couldn’t find a car to give me a ride to there, but suddenly pieces of metals, engine, wheels, glass and other stuff come together and BANG they made up a brand new car. U wud not let me finish my story cuz absolutely it is a silly joke, but wait I told u it happened naturally by accident? n if I were u, I wud definitely say it can’t be made like this! There must be someone made that. So I can use some analogy here and ask again: who created the universe? Does the one creator theory apply here? Is not absurd that u couldn’t believe that the car or the door were not made by themselves but rather someone or something made them; however, u claim ( just a reminder: am addressing all atheists here) that the universe was not created or made by someone (ALMIGHTY GOD)? Think about it. Where is ur logic here?

I totally agree with u that sciences an technologies are advancing and this enables and empowers us to create many things and am quoting from u here :” Judging by the rate at which scientific discovery is advancing, it's not necessarily true that we'll never know.” But will this advancement let us create something greater like a whole universe or let us minimize it and say something very small like a fly, a living fly.? My friend no matter how our knowledge advances rapidly, we still have a limited capacity as humans not as u said “Limited capacity for now.” Believe me, even if we come together and help each other with our different abilities and knowledge, we will never be able to create that fly! I don’t want to presume that unconsciously the direct religious knowledge/exposure that u have in ur mind is Christianity( since it is the major cult in your country) so u might have ended up leveling what u found of deficiencies in their religion to other religions including mine.

Sorry for the WoT - I've actually broken it up into what I think the sections should be, because before it was one long paragraph.

Bleurgh. I will have to address this, of course, but I'm not looking forward to the Same Shit Different Day feeling it's going to engender in me.

Let's see what I'll be dealing with, in a nutshell:

1. Another attempt to discredit Christianity - something I've already told him I don't give a fuck about.
2. An assertion of the existence of a soul.
3. Argument from incredulity (repeatedly).
4. Variation on the "Tornado in a Junkyard" argument.
5. Blatant misunderstanding of evolution and the confusion of it with theories on the origin of the universe.
6. Repeated assertion of existence of a creator, but no explanation of the creation of the creator.
7. A last paragraph of utter gobbledygook that I really can't parse at all. ("We will never be able to create that fly!")
8. A final attempt to discredit Christianity and implore me not to reject all religions based on that "cult".

Sigh.
And I have so much work to do today, too.

[Logic please]

Originally Posted by Bolero;325637Let's see what I'll be dealing with, in a nutshell:
...
Another attempt to discredit Christianity - something I've already told him I don't give a fuck about.[*

A final attempt to discredit Christianity and implore me not to reject all religions based on that "cult".

Apparently, he still thinks that the only thing stopping you being religious is disappointment with / rejection of xtianity. He's not reading what you're saying, for mine.

I believe there is no god, as u believe so, ( thus I told u, u r on the half way to truth) but the complete story is there is no god but Allah. Am trying to be as good as any other practicing Muslim. I don’t want to be a scholar or a missionary of my religion because am not in the right position to carry out such a task. (my emphasis)

Arrogance and presumption of the highest order, IMO. Doesn't islam exhort its followers to be humble anymore? At least he got using the "story" word right...

And for someone that claims they don't want to be a missonary, he's sure doing a good job of impersonating one.

Good luck with all that.

[Xeno]

Paley's BANG.

"If you were walking in a field, and spied on the ground a universe, wouldn't you think someone must have made it?"

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Bolero: get him to prove that it was his god. He clearly is just going to insist that there is a god, so why not get him to prove that it was his god.

Sure, say you believe in the FSM while you're at it. After all, his arguments can be used the same way.

[the_gelf]

I like the part where he blatantly ignores all your pertinent arguments and pushes his own agenda. Classic.