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#2181
4th April 2017, 08:44 PM
 pipbarber AFA Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3,129
Re: President Donald Trump

Quote:
 Blue Lightning said Worse, the genius of this type far and alt- right programme is that it's aided and abetted by a superficial, holier-than-though, Ralph Nader-esque “purity” among some on "the left" which led to the destruction of an Al Gore and gave us bucket-loads of George W Bush. Only this time, we've scaled the short-sighted self-destructive madness up by orders of magnitude.
Yep, its why John Pilger urged people to vote Trump. Not sure about Chomsky but i imagine he didnt waste much of his precious breath defending Clinton against the insane orange dictator.
#2182
4th April 2017, 09:09 PM
 stylofone I am no feeble Christ, not me. Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,255
Re: President Donald Trump

Quote:
 Blue Lightning said 1. I didn't remember that it was Robert Mercer, but I knew that malevolent deep-pocketed far and alt- right forces had pursued the Clinton Foundation (among other things) with indefatigable vigour over many years. That, after all that effort and all of the associated conspiratorial social media, this type of criticism and the emails criticism is the best that they could come up with, is a telling commendation of the general propriety of Hillary Clinton.
Mercer's Government Accountability Institute is but one source. From the Guardian:

Quote:
 Bannon co-founded it with $2m of Mercer’s money. Mercer’s daughter, Rebekah, was appointed to the board. Then they invested in expensive, long-term investigative journalism. “The modern economics of the newsroom don’t support big investigative reporting staffs,” Bannon told Forbes magazine. “You wouldn’t get a Watergate, a Pentagon Papers today, because nobody can afford to let a reporter spend seven months on a story. We can. We’re working as a support function.” Welcome to the future of journalism in the age of platform capitalism. News organisations have to do a better job of creating new financial models. But in the gaps in between, a determined plutocrat and a brilliant media strategist can, and have, found a way to mould journalism to their own ends. In 2015, Steve Bannon described to Forbes how the GAI operated, employing a data scientist to trawl the dark web (in the article he boasts of having access to$1.3bn worth of supercomputers) to dig up the kind of source material Google can’t find. One result has been a New York Times bestseller, Clinton Cash: The Untold Story of How and Why Foreign Governments and Businesses Helped Make Bill and Hillary Rich, written by GAI’s president, Peter Schweizer and later turned into a film produced by Rebekah Mercer and Steve Bannon.
It really makes me wonder about wikileaks/Russia and the Podesta emails, which, incidentally, were also trumpeted by Sanders supporters. Where's the smoke coming from?? Or maybe Russia had nothing to do with it. Most intriguing.
#2183
4th April 2017, 10:30 PM
 Blue Lightning "Mr Charles Darwin had the gall to ask" Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Sydney Posts: 6,251
Re: President Donald Trump

Meanwhile, and somewhat still off topic, this must be the best April Fool's Day joke of all time:

Russia's prank voice message: 'Press 3 for election interference' -

Quote:
 Moscow has been emphatic in its denials of allegations that it interfered the US election process. But that didn't stop the Russian Foreign Ministry poking fun at the claims in an April Fools' Day spoof. On Saturday it published what it said was a new automated answering message for the switchboards of Russian embassies around the world ...

(English language starts just after 27sec.)

You've got to hand it to Putin. That's not only clever PR, passing off sinister conduct as a joke. It is seriously funny .
__________________
"Just stick to the idea that science is just about making descriptive models of natural phenomena, whose emergent predictions are tested to destruction" - Woof!
"Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves" - Richard Feynman

Last edited by Blue Lightning; 4th April 2017 at 10:35 PM.
#2184
4th April 2017, 10:38 PM
 wadaye AFA Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,755
Re: President Donald Trump

BL I wasn't attacking the work of the foundation, but rather the principle of a person or family in the midst of power and seeking the presidency, raising money for a private charity from other states. I acknowledge that the foundation may have been up and running before even the first time she ran for presidency. Private philanthropy is not adequate as a substitute for good international governance. Where as you say the international governance is lacking then addressing that problem squarely is a proper role for politicians.
__________________
"I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins
#2185
4th April 2017, 10:46 PM
 Blue Lightning "Mr Charles Darwin had the gall to ask" Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Sydney Posts: 6,251
Re: President Donald Trump

Quote:
 wadaye said ... Where as you say the international governance is lacking then addressing that problem squarely is a proper role for politicians.
Protection of the environment. Protection of refugees. Those are things you've expressed concern for on this forum in the past.

In those cases, too, "governance is lacking". I'm sure you agree. In those cases, the "problem squarely is a proper role for politicians". I'm sure you agree. Unless I'm seriously mistaken.

Governance is often lacking in many areas where solving the problem squarely is a proper role for politicians.

Often.

Are you really saying that when governance is lacking and the problem squarely is a proper role for politicians, that those with the skills and/or means to act, to actually do something which helps, should not?

(EDIT - Good night. Bed time for me.)
__________________
"Just stick to the idea that science is just about making descriptive models of natural phenomena, whose emergent predictions are tested to destruction" - Woof!
"Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves" - Richard Feynman

Last edited by Blue Lightning; 4th April 2017 at 10:54 PM.
#2186
4th April 2017, 10:55 PM
 wadaye AFA Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,755
Re: President Donald Trump

Quote:
 stylofone said I might not have it comepletely straight, but isn't the Clinton Foundation funding exposé the result of a massive investigative effort bankrolled by Robert Mercer, who also paid for the establishment of Breitbart? I'm not saying the information is false, or that the Foundation is pure because of this, but there's a major effort to bring out the details that look bad for her. It's not a balanced picture.
The NYTimes article cited linked to the Charity's disclosure page which was thankfully up to date.

Quote:
 Careful, Hillary hate could be Trump love with a mask.
Its not a binary system. Neither is it Hillary hate, not on my part anyway.

Quote:
 I got the impression there's a kind of Reagan-esque vibe about the Foundation. They try to do altruism driven by market forces. So you don't donate to Haiti, you get Haiti to do joint ventures and set up corporations. I think that philosophy kinda sucks, and maybe answers the question about UNICEF etc..
I think the future for the poor of the world is heading more and more towards Bantustanisation, or Palestinianisation. If one looks at what is happening to the Palestinians on the west bank hemmed and walled into smaller and smaller ghettoes, this is also what we do to nature, and it is what we did to Aborigines, of whom those who were not shot or poisoned became mendicants for a place to live.

These are structural issues which require a complete rethink about how we order society in the international age. Trying to entice market forces to do good in the world is not going to get us there, though it may randomly save some lives (but not others) along the way.
__________________
"I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins
#2187
5th April 2017, 07:46 AM
 wadaye AFA Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,755
Re: President Donald Trump

Quote:
Blue Lightning said
Quote:
 wadaye said ... Where as you say the international governance is lacking then addressing that problem squarely is a proper role for politicians.
Protection of the environment. Protection of refugees. Those are things you've expressed concern for on this forum in the past.

In those cases, too, "governance is lacking". I'm sure you agree. In those cases, the "problem squarely is a proper role for politicians". I'm sure you agree. Unless I'm seriously mistaken.

Governance is often lacking in many areas where solving the problem squarely is a proper role for politicians.

Often.

Are you really saying that when governance is lacking and the problem squarely is a proper role for politicians, that those with the skills and/or means to act, to actually do something which helps, should not?

(EDIT - Good night. Bed time for me.)
Yes of course they should act. I suppose that it was probably appropriate for her to separate herself from the role of the charity at some point even if only for perceptions.
Motivations of potential donors may otherwise be seen to have more (in the minds of some donors) to do with the then potentially rising star of the director of the charity than the goals and work of the charity.
__________________
"I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins
 Blue Lightning liked this post
#2188
5th April 2017, 08:04 AM
 Blue Lightning "Mr Charles Darwin had the gall to ask" Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Sydney Posts: 6,251
Re: President Donald Trump

@Waydaye - understood.
__________________
"Just stick to the idea that science is just about making descriptive models of natural phenomena, whose emergent predictions are tested to destruction" - Woof!
"Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves" - Richard Feynman
#2189
5th April 2017, 09:06 AM
 Stub King Take my advice, don't listen to me Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Melbourne Posts: 912
Re: President Donald Trump

Quote:
 wadaye said Yes of course they should act. I suppose that it was probably appropriate for her to separate herself from the role of the charity at some point even if only for perceptions.
Agree. Bill too. Robert Reich called for them to do it and she did say she would if she won. which is still better than DT who never even said anything.
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The less people know, the more stubbornly they know it. (Osho)
 Blue Lightning liked this post
#2190
5th April 2017, 09:07 AM
 Stub King Take my advice, don't listen to me Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Melbourne Posts: 912
Re: President Donald Trump

not sure if I posted this already but since Mercer's name came up ...

Robert Mercer: the big data billionaire waging war on mainstream media

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...P=share_btn_fb

Quote:
 With links to Donald Trump, Steve Bannon and Nigel Farage, the rightwing US computer scientist is at the heart of a multimillion-dollar propaganda network
__________________
The less people know, the more stubbornly they know it. (Osho)

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