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  #1751  
Old 31st January 2017, 09:35 PM
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joele joele is offline
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Default Re: President-Elect Donald Trump

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Spearthrower said View Post
The one here is pretty laughable. I envision it as a bunch of guys sat round antiquated computers just reading through comments on Facebook and a particularly popular forum here.
I think the point was more to store massive amounts of data (including stuff that many think is 'private'), so if they decide for whatever reason you're a 'target' in the future, all your communications can be retrieved..

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pipbarber said View Post
It's just the sheer bulk of data. I'm not suggesting that a server can't be cracked and every online input by a particular individual cant be retrieved, i'm saying that when 50 million people organise a resistance it just doesnt matter that the regime knows, it's just too big to control and stop.
Sure if everyone wants to overthrow the government they can't do much, just may be not so easy for any 'leaders' or a core group to evade surveillance for long.. Different issues though, as you said if enough people rise up at once they would be for all intents and purposes, unstoppable.
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Last edited by joele; 31st January 2017 at 09:38 PM. Reason: i can't speeel
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  #1752  
Old 31st January 2017, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: President-Elect Donald Trump

Stevebrooks above made an interesting point in my opinion. Maybe we need this, after all, fascism was pretty much dead or viciously maligned for decades after 1945. Maybe we need a prod in order to re-reject ethno authoritarianism, anti intellectualism, anti science and reason.

Maybe. But that feels kind of masochist.
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  #1753  
Old 31st January 2017, 09:37 PM
Spearthrower Spearthrower is offline
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Default Re: President-Elect Donald Trump

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joele said View Post
I think the point was more to store massive amounts of data (that many think is private), so if they decide for whatever reason you're a 'target' in the future, all your communications can be retrieved..
Yeah, sorry I was talking about here, as in Thailand!
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  #1754  
Old 31st January 2017, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: President-Elect Donald Trump

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pipbarber said View Post
Stevebrooks above made an interesting point in my opinion. Maybe we need this, after all, fascism was pretty much dead or viciously maligned for decades after 1945. Maybe we need a prod in order to re-reject ethno authoritarianism, anti intellectualism, anti science and reason.

Maybe. But that feels kind of masochist.
yeah well I think the same about (in)equality, would I be wrong to say historically it has been wars and generally violent revolutions that 'reset' the spread of inequality? we then of course start slipping again..

My problem of course is the amount of suffering required, wouldn't it be nice if we could do it without mass bloodshed...
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  #1755  
Old 31st January 2017, 09:49 PM
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Default Re: President-Elect Donald Trump

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joele said View Post
yeah well I think the same about (in)equality, would I be wrong to say historically it has been wars and generally violent revolutions that 'reset' the spread of inequality? we then of course start slipping again..

My problem of course is the amount of suffering required, wouldn't it be nice if we could do it without mass bloodshed...
Yes, i feel the same. Why do we have to replay this again? Dont people read history, ever?
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  #1756  
Old 31st January 2017, 09:55 PM
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Default Re: President-Elect Donald Trump

...oh, speaking of history. Dan Carlin from hardcore history released his first free podcast in what seems like years. 'Destroyer of worlds.' Its a 6 hour analysis of the Cuban missile crisis contextualised against the dawn of the atomic age post 1945. Utterly brilliant, enthralling, staggering audio journey...yeah i liked it.

I reckon its his contribution to the resistance actually.

http://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-series/
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  #1757  
Old 1st February 2017, 01:11 AM
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Default Re: President-Elect Donald Trump

There's another issue here that needs to be remembered.

Trump ran an election campaign based on tossing out so much shite that there was no way to focus on it all. With the flurry of executive orders, there have been many quite fundamental spectres raised, but the obvious one is taking precedent (for good reason) which may well take the heat off the others.
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  #1758  
Old 1st February 2017, 11:08 AM
stevebrooks stevebrooks is online now
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Default Re: President-Elect Donald Trump

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Spearthrower said View Post
There's another issue here that needs to be remembered.

Trump ran an election campaign based on tossing out so much shite that there was no way to focus on it all. With the flurry of executive orders, there have been many quite fundamental spectres raised, but the obvious one is taking precedent (for good reason) which may well take the heat off the others.
I see the alt-right comments are on full in most of the articles about the AG sacking by Trump, one even went so far as to say, and I quote, "I am employed to do whatever my boss tells me to do." Of course leaving out the bit about "within the rule of law and common decency" says a lot about the commenter. They seem to think that whatever Trump tells them to do should be done if you are an employee of the US government, regardless of ethics, morals or common decency or even rule of law.

I applaud the stand of the AG, even if it did get her fired. She can stand proud that she stood up for what is right. We will see how it does with the new AG! I know that if my boss told me to do something unethical or illegal
I would refuse, this is being looked down upon by Trump supporters as being akin to being a traitor and they are calling for her to be tried for treason, good luck with that.

Interestingly;

Quote:
Remarkably, Yates was asked in senate confirmation hearings what she would say to a president who wanted to do something unlawful – and the person who asked the question was Jeff Sessions, Trump’s nominee for attorney general.

Sessions prefaced his question by telling Yates: “You have to watch out, because people will be asking you to do things you just need to say no about.
“Do you think the attorney general has a responsibility to say no to the president, if he asks for something that is improper? … If the views the president wants to execute are unlawful, should the attorney general or the deputy attorney general say no?”

Yates told Sessions: “Senator I believe the attorney general or the deputy attorney general has an obligation to follow the law and the Constitution, and to give their independent legal advice to the president.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...al-sally-yates
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Last edited by stevebrooks; 1st February 2017 at 11:32 AM.
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  #1759  
Old 1st February 2017, 11:34 AM
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Default Re: President-Elect Donald Trump

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pipbarber said View Post
I'm probably being too historical about it but if the citizens of Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia had had a means to communicate anonymously without being listened to those regimes could not have lasted for as long, especially Stalinist Russia. Collective resistances would have formed.
You think the internet and phones are a "secret" grapevine?
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Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

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  #1760  
Old 1st February 2017, 01:07 PM
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Default Re: President-Elect Donald Trump

Trump Nominates Neil Gorsuch to the Supreme Court

http://reason.com/blog/2017/01/31/tr...ch-to-the-supr
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