Go Back   AFA Forums > Secularism and Social Issues > Politics

Politics Political issues which help or hinder our society

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #2341  
Old 18th May 2017, 10:02 PM
THWOTH's Avatar
THWOTH THWOTH is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The Cotswolds, UK
Posts: 666
Default Re: President Donald Trump

Trump is making a point we kind of knew anyway: governance isn't necessarily compatible with politics, and politics isn't necessarily compatible with getting elected.
__________________
...never eat your own nose...
Reply With Quote
Like The Irreverent Mr Black, DanDare liked this post
  #2342  
Old 18th May 2017, 10:28 PM
odd's Avatar
odd odd is offline
I, for one, welcome our new insect overlord.
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Pianosa.
Posts: 9,298
Default Re: President Donald Trump

Quote:
wolty said View Post
Quote:
odd said View Post
Stop me if I am repeating myself... but... I have had many arguments with both family and forum members who have expressed a distaste for 'career politicians' - a term they use as a pejorative. Business people do not have to respect any concept of separation of powers, nor do they nescessarily need to respect the rule of law.

This is what electing a novice looks like in the US - Sure we elected Clive (and on a different tangent, Pauline), but they do not have anything like the power and capacity for auto industry action that the US President has.
Yes, politics is of course diplomacy. Business isn't. Least the way it is practised in some parts of the world.
I know you know this Wolty, but I will air it because I think it needs to be said. Politics is more than diplomacy. CEO's are accountable to their shareholders, and the measure is simple - $. States do not and cannot work like this. A dollar cut from spending does not profit the shareholders, rather, it results in less infrastructure.
__________________

'[They] agreed that it was neither possible nor necessary to educate people who never questioned anything.' ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

'While on the other hand, dachshunds are always out of their depth.' - Cyclist

'I'm 'a' problem, not 'the' problem.' - Wolty

'You have to be odd to be number one.' - Dr Suess
Reply With Quote
Like wolty, wadaye, DanDare, Strato liked this post
Thank The Irreverent Mr Black, DanDare thanked this post
  #2343  
Old 19th May 2017, 04:51 AM
The Irreverent Mr Black's Avatar
The Irreverent Mr Black The Irreverent Mr Black is offline
Stick around with Dtella dubia
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Living on the celiing
Posts: 1,664
Default Re: President Donald Trump



Hat Tip: S4RK on B3ta
__________________

Democracy is all about not electing the wrong man-eating lizard. - Douglas Adams

Reply With Quote
Laugh at loubert, knowledge is power, DanDare laughed at this post
  #2344  
Old 19th May 2017, 09:20 AM
wadaye wadaye is offline
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,392
Default Re: President Donald Trump

The Donald Trump impeachment prayer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvb17ZPw37s

(How do I make it look like a youtube image like everyone else does?)

and one for Ben Carson too

https://youtu.be/TtL0udxbvQI
__________________
"I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins

Last edited by wadaye; 19th May 2017 at 09:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
Laugh at knowledge is power laughed at this post
  #2345  
Old 19th May 2017, 09:41 AM
The Irreverent Mr Black's Avatar
The Irreverent Mr Black The Irreverent Mr Black is offline
Stick around with Dtella dubia
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Living on the celiing
Posts: 1,664
Default Re: President Donald Trump

Fairfax Linky explains impeachment:

Quote:
What Is impeachment?

The Constitution permits Congress to remove presidents before their term is up if enough lawmakers vote to say that they committed "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors".

Only three presidents have been subjected to impeachment proceedings. Two were impeached but acquitted and stayed in office: Andrew Johnson in 1868 and Bill Clinton in 1998 and 1999. A third, Richard Nixon in 1974, resigned to avoid being impeached.

What is the process?

First, the House of Representatives votes on one or more articles of impeachment. If at least one gets a majority vote, the president is impeached, which essentially means being indicted. In both the Nixon and the Clinton cases, the House Judiciary Committee considered the matter first.

Next, the proceedings move to the Senate, which holds a trial overseen by the chief justice of the Supreme Court. A team of politicians from the House, known as managers, play the role of prosecutors. The president has defence lawyers, and the Senate serves as the jury.

If at least two-thirds of the senators find the president guilty, he is removed, and the vice president takes over as president.

What are the rules?

There are no standard rules. Rather, the Senate passes a resolution first laying out trial procedures.

"When the Senate decided what the rules were going to be for our trial, they really made them up as they went along," said Greg Craig, who helped defend Clinton in his impeachment proceeding and later served as White House counsel to president Barack Obama.

For example, Craig said, the initial rules in that case gave four days to the Republican managers to make a case for conviction, followed by four days for the president's legal team to defend him, essentially opening statements. The Senate then decided whether to hear witnesses, and if so, whether it would be live or on videotape. Eventually, the Senate permitted each side to depose several witnesses by videotape.

The rules adopted by the Senate in the Clinton trial, including limiting the number of witnesses and the length of depositions, made it harder to prove a case compared with trials in federal court, said former congressman Bob Barr, a Georgia Republican who served as a House manager during the trial and is also a former US attorney.

"Impeachment is a creature unto itself," Barr said. "The jury in a criminal case doesn't set the rules for a case and can't decide what evidence they want to see and what they won't."

What are the standards?

The Constitution says a president allows impeachment and removal for "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors". But no controlling authority serves as a check on how lawmakers choose to interpret that standard, which makes it as much a question of political will as of legal analysis.

In the case of Clinton's trial, for example, Robert Byrd, a Democratic senator from West Virginia at the time, told his colleagues that he thought Clinton was clearly guilty of perjury but that removing him from office was a bad idea.

"To drop the sword of Damocles now, given the bitter political partisanship surrounding this entire matter, would only serve to further undermine a public trust that is too much damaged already," he said. "Therefore, I will reluctantly vote to acquit."

Clinton was impeached by a Congress in which the opposition party controlled both the House and the Senate. In Trump's case, his party controls both chambers, making it more politically unappealing for them to vote to impeach him.

What about the 25th Amendment?

Adopted in 1967, the 25th Amendment provides another mechanism for removing a president. It is geared toward dealing with a president who becomes disabled from carrying out the duties of the office, as opposed to presidential lawbreaking.

Under its procedures, if both the vice president and a majority of the Cabinet tell Congress that the president is "unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office", the vice president immediately becomes the acting president. If the president contests that finding, but two-thirds of both chambers of Congress side with the vice president, he remains the acting president for the remainder of the term.
__________________

Democracy is all about not electing the wrong man-eating lizard. - Douglas Adams

Reply With Quote
Thank DanDare, Strato thanked this post
  #2346  
Old 19th May 2017, 09:49 AM
Blue Lightning's Avatar
Blue Lightning Blue Lightning is offline
"Mr Charles Darwin had the gall to ask"
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 5,815
Default Re: President Donald Trump

Quote:
wadaye said View Post
The Donald Trump impeachment prayer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvb17ZPw37s

(How do I make it look like a youtube image like everyone else does?)

and one for Ben Carson too

https://youtu.be/TtL0udxbvQI
@Wadaye -

Copy one of the strings of characters after the = or the /

In your case the two such strings are

Wvb17ZPw37s

and

TtL0udxbvQI

From here there are two ways:

1. At the top right of the forum's post composition windows you will see a "YouTube" icon, next to the google video, twitter, etc, icons. Click on it and paste the string between the youtube bb codes - i.e., between the ] and the [. Make sure your cut and paste leaves no gaps/space characters.

2. Or, you can just type the bb codes. The concluding one is [/youtube]. The opening one is [youtube]. The string goes between them with not gaps. (I've done that backwards, so the forum doesn't interpret this comment as a youtube link).

Your finished products:




If you press the quote function to quote this reply, you'll see the bb codes for revealed.
__________________
"Just stick to the idea that science is just about making descriptive models of natural phenomena, whose emergent predictions are tested to destruction" - Woof!
"Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves" - Richard Feynman

Last edited by Blue Lightning; 19th May 2017 at 09:51 AM.
Reply With Quote
Like wadaye liked this post
Thank wadaye thanked this post
  #2347  
Old 19th May 2017, 10:20 AM
wadaye wadaye is offline
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,392
Default Re: President Donald Trump

Quote:
Blue Lightning said View Post

If you press the quote function to quote this reply, you'll see the bb codes for revealed.
Thanks Lightning its very simple after all.
__________________
"I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins
Reply With Quote
  #2348  
Old 19th May 2017, 01:20 PM
pipbarber's Avatar
pipbarber pipbarber is offline
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,298
Default Re: President Donald Trump

Just listened to Sam Harris' podcast from this morning - in conversation with Anne Applebaum and Juliette Kayyemon, on the prospects of a Trump impeachment. Great listening if you haven't heard it yet. As is pointed out early on, with the speed of change in Trump-world, this podcast won't age well. Well worth a listen though.

https://www.samharris.org/podcast/it...to-impeachment
Reply With Quote
Thank Blue Lightning, Strato thanked this post
  #2349  
Old 19th May 2017, 05:49 PM
wolty's Avatar
wolty wolty is online now
Not a 'Westy'.
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 23,812
Default Re: President Donald Trump

Annie subscribes to John Birmingham so you get what isn't publicly available all the time.

More at link. https://medium.com/@JohnBirmingham/5abba0a25cae


Quote:
As humiliating as it would be getting serially cucked by Donald Trump, our very own Studs Trumble must crawl into his monogrammed bedtime romper every night and offer up a prayer of thanks to the Shoggoth Daemon to which he promised his immortal soul as payment for blowing such a loud and discordant tune on its enormous orange fuck-trumpet. What better way to distract from the slow motion train wreck of the PMísí bright and shining political ambitions than cranking up the soundtrack on the hyper-accelerated dumdum bullet-train wreck of Fuckface von Clownstickís bonfire of insanities? I mean seriously, what a fucking week. Only dark magic and the sacrifice of human souls can explain these things now.

Remember that time when the American president did a solid for his case officer Vladimir, by inviting the Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador to the Oval Office? The Ambassador who is also a career intelligence officer? And he banned American reporters? And let Russian photographers with bags full of exciting electronics crawl all over the place? But it didnít matter if any of them were moonlighting for the GRU or FSB because before they could even plant any monitoring equipment the dangerous idiot in chief had already douchebragged away the best details of double-plus secret Mossad intelligence about ISIS plans to blow up a bunch of western airliners with laptop bombs?

But that was cool because the President sent his replacement National Security Advisor out to promise that he didnít do that and it didnít happen, because it was fake news, and then a couple of hours later, he tweeted that he did do it, but by then it was disloyal leaking, but no, ha-ha just kidding, he was joking. And finally he did it on purpose and thatís totally fine because heís the president and youíre not, so heís allowed to, fuck you very much.

Yeah, that was Monday.
__________________
.
.
.


The Nizkor Project- Logical Fallacies

Atheist: n; A person to be pitied in that he is unable to believe things for which there is no evidence, and who has thus deprived himself of a convenient means of feeling superior to others.
óChaz Bufe, The American Hereticís Dictionary
Reply With Quote
  #2350  
Old 19th May 2017, 07:38 PM
Goldenmane's Avatar
Goldenmane Goldenmane is offline
Cuss-tard
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,986
Default Re: President Donald Trump

Quote:
wolty said View Post
Annie subscribes to John Birmingham so you get what isn't publicly available all the time.

More at link. https://medium.com/@JohnBirmingham/5abba0a25cae


Quote:
As humiliating as it would be getting serially cucked by Donald Trump, our very own Studs Trumble must crawl into his monogrammed bedtime romper every night and offer up a prayer of thanks to the Shoggoth Daemon to which he promised his immortal soul as payment for blowing such a loud and discordant tune on its enormous orange fuck-trumpet. What better way to distract from the slow motion train wreck of the PMísí bright and shining political ambitions than cranking up the soundtrack on the hyper-accelerated dumdum bullet-train wreck of Fuckface von Clownstickís bonfire of insanities? I mean seriously, what a fucking week. Only dark magic and the sacrifice of human souls can explain these things now.

Remember that time when the American president did a solid for his case officer Vladimir, by inviting the Russian Foreign Minister and Ambassador to the Oval Office? The Ambassador who is also a career intelligence officer? And he banned American reporters? And let Russian photographers with bags full of exciting electronics crawl all over the place? But it didnít matter if any of them were moonlighting for the GRU or FSB because before they could even plant any monitoring equipment the dangerous idiot in chief had already douchebragged away the best details of double-plus secret Mossad intelligence about ISIS plans to blow up a bunch of western airliners with laptop bombs?

But that was cool because the President sent his replacement National Security Advisor out to promise that he didnít do that and it didnít happen, because it was fake news, and then a couple of hours later, he tweeted that he did do it, but by then it was disloyal leaking, but no, ha-ha just kidding, he was joking. And finally he did it on purpose and thatís totally fine because heís the president and youíre not, so heís allowed to, fuck you very much.

Yeah, that was Monday.
I haz a new favourite...
__________________
-Geoff Rogers

@Goldenmane3

Reply With Quote
Like wolty, Strato liked this post
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 09:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.